Author Topic: How to Carry!!  (Read 1179 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RodE

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
How to Carry!!
« on: January 29, 2019, 07:20:30 AM »
I am not sure where to post this question.  I apologize in advance for such a dumb one, but try to remember I am a complete newbie!!

OK.. here goes..................

Does it really make any difference to carry with the hammer at half cock or fully down on a live round?  :-[
I would think the hammer block would make it safe either way!   I would also think that finger pressure and time on
the trigger to fire would be about the same in either case.

Also, dropping the hammer from full cock to half cock would be a mite easier and safer.

So why would anyone  carry with the hammer fully down on a live round?

(I think I am talking in circles here!!!  ha ha 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 07:53:52 AM by RodE »

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3091
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 08:06:20 AM »
I carry hammer fully at rest and it's perfectly safe and I practice firing from hammer fully down. Carry what ever way you are comfortable.

Offline daved20319

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2019, 11:50:41 AM »
Safety or decocker on the pistol?  If decocker, it's kind of defeating the whole purpose of having it if you're manually decocking it, as you're overriding the firing pin block by pulling the trigger.  Otherwise, the only real advantage to the half cock notch is a shorter DA pull, and that varies with the gun, I have some that "half-cock" really is about half, others that are more than 3/4 down.  And then there's my Sig, with a rebounding hammer  ::).  Personally, for a newb, I'd strongly suggest a decocker and use it as designed, FAR less chance of an AD/ND.  Later, and be safe.

Dave

Offline lewmed

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
  • 240th AHC Viet Nam 1967-1968
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2019, 01:24:53 PM »
 Good advise listen to Dave

Offline RodE

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2019, 04:04:42 PM »
Safety (of course).  Sorry to bring this up! :'(

Offline daved20319

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2019, 11:38:42 AM »
Safety (of course).  Sorry to bring this up! :'(

No reason to be sorry, it's not an unreasonable question.  Since yours has a safety, it really comes down to personal preference and technique, as well as the design of your particular pistol.  Just always keep in mind that as long as the trigger is pulled enough to drop the hammer, the firing pin block is disabled.  Or to put it in a slightly more colorful way, if your booger hook is on the bang switch, the gun can/will go BANG  ;)!

Since most of my guns have decockers, and the others are only used at the range, I haven't worked on manually decocking a pistol with safety, but I know there's a couple of good techniques that involve having your thumb between the hammer and firing pin, pulling the trigger to release the hammer, then get you finger off the trigger and roll the thumb out of the way.  That SHOULD drop the hammer to half cock, which is where I'd leave it.  Regardless of the technique, I'd say practice, practice, practice it until you're SURE you're in no danger of an AD/ND, then practice it that much more again.  Needless to say, don't practice with live rounds in the gun.  Later.

Dave

Offline Radom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2767
  • HGWT
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2019, 08:53:19 PM »
I am not sure where to post this question.  I apologize in advance for such a dumb one, but try to remember I am a complete newbie!!

OK.. here goes..................

Does it really make any difference to carry with the hammer at half cock or fully down on a live round?  :-[
I would think the hammer block would make it safe either way!   I would also think that finger pressure and time on
the trigger to fire would be about the same in either case.

Also, dropping the hammer from full cock to half cock would be a mite easier and safer.

So why would anyone  carry with the hammer fully down on a live round?

(I think I am talking in circles here!!!  ha ha

The entire purpose of a DA auto with an external hammer is the ability to carry the pistol with the hammer entirely down (full rest). 

Any Type B CZ has at least two safeties.  The firing pin block (FPB) prevents the firing pin from engaging/extending into the breech face without pulling the trigger.  This system cannot "fail" from a safety standpoint.  (If it "fails," you have a paperweight.)

Most pistols since WWI (1918) have an inertial firing pin safety.  To my knowledge, every pistol ever made by CZ has one.  Basically, there is an integral spring around the firing pin that provides enough resistance to the travel of the pin to prevent it from extending into the breech from anything less than a full strike from the hammer. The inertial firing pin spring is often known as a "drop" safety. 

A Type B CZ with a decocker has: 1) a FPB; 2) an inertial firing pin spring; and 3) a decocking lever that goes to the half-cock position when engaged. 

I couldn't tell you which hammer position is "better," because I won't own a CZ with a decocking lever, despite having two for a trial.  I prefer the manual safety, SA/DA version. 

EDIT: I think the decocker is a scam, but the DA pull is supposedly lighter from half-cock. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 09:11:06 PM by Radom »
The artist formerly known as FEG...

Offline RodE

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 46
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 07:04:19 AM »
This is really some great information that even I can understand!!!

Offline daved20319

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2019, 11:28:36 AM »
Why so much hate for the decocker, Radom?  And how is it a scam?  Not trying to be argumentative, just curious as to your reasoning behind your obviously strong opinion.  Personally, I prefer decockers, especially as I carry appendix, just feels safer than cocked and locked.  And yes, I'm quite willing to admit that that's MY impression, and not necessarily reality.  Later.

Dave

Offline recoilguy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1615
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2019, 02:18:57 PM »
There is nothing wrong with a decocker at all. It is just a personal preference. In my opinion I would not own a safety version. The guns I own except the 1911 versions are all decocker or no safety at all. I prefer my guns that way. Just me though as long as you are comfortable with what you have and familiar with it carry what you know!!!!

RCG
What I lack in speed , I make up for with inaccuracy

Offline Radom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2767
  • HGWT
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 12:49:07 PM »
Basically, the Type B CZ 75 pistols have one system or the other.  They have a decocker OR a manual safety, as opposed to a Beretta 92 or most Walther clones (integrated safety/decocker). 

The decocking 75 series pistols are all Type Bs: they have a firing pin block (FPB) and an inertial firing pin system (IFPS).  When you engage the decocking lever, the hammer drops to the half-cock notch.  When you pull the trigger on these models in DA mode, the hammer fully retracts to maximum travel, then drops.  (In other words, the half-cock position is not an advantage.) If you chamber a round from the magazine, the hammer is fully cocked, but you have no safety in Condition 1, other than the FPB and IFPS.  (Basically, don't touch the trigger.)  You cannot treat a decocking model as a traditional SA pistol.

The manual safety 75 series pistols can be Type A or Type B.  Type As have the IFPS; Type Bs have the IFPS and the FPB.  When you chamber a round from the magazine, the hammer is fully cocked.  You now have three options.  1) Manually decock to full rest (DA); 2) Manually decock to the half-cock notch (effectively same DA, since the hammer fully retracts to max. travel and then drops); or 3) engage the manual safety and have a true SA pistol in Condition 1. 

In my mind, the decocking models are a "scam."  They don't give you an SA/DA pistol, the hallmark of the CZ 75 design.  The "true" CZ 75 is an SA pistol that can be used in DA/SA mode, if you choose to do so.  The decocking models are poor DA/SA models, in that they don't have an integrated decocker/safety, nor do they decock to full rest. 
The artist formerly known as FEG...

Offline adrian

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 920
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 07:16:58 PM »
     Hiya and thanks for your, how to carry thread, great advice and heated conversations. Some trial and error and you shall find a carry that works perfect for you,and prolly make adjustments to equipment and situations. For my two cents to add, my first cz was my range and primary carry. A omega PO-2, in 2011, it came from factory with ambi decocker,,and the type that ya pushed down to decock. Also included was ambi manual safety,leaving it to owner the choice. In training , preferred the pull and shoot vs pull disengage manual safety and pull. A few years later cz custom offered a trigger work,reset package,and Stu corrected the factories trigger shortcomings of the omegas. Did own a tactical PO-1 but didn't like its decocker as it was small and needed to be pushed up to work, unnatural motion I thought. All my range guns are manuel safety, LS,TS,Checkmate and every so often feel like a duffous when lined up for a shot and pull,finding the safety still on. Using a decocker on your carry,prevents that maybe becoming your last oops. Be well.

Offline PappaWheelie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • "This is war, and in war, time is of the essence."
    • The Children's Bread
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 09:36:08 PM »
Using a decocker on your carry prevents that maybe becoming your last oops.
Well put, adrian; a safety must be remembered to be switched off, and the high stress of a real world defensive incident works to make "remembering" less than one's most immediate priority, no matter how diligently one has trained. Decocker "safety" (the non-hair trigger of half-travel DA for 1st shot) solves the problem nicely, serving as an additional safeguard to the cardinal rule of keeping one's trigger finger in register until actually in process of firing (having verified clear background, etc.).
People believe what they want to believe, of course, and many believe a must-be-switched-off safety to be the way to go. I personally wouldn't want to add that potential failure mode to my under-duress list of musts.
Those who desire a SA first pull can cock the hammer to that mode when appropriate, as is the case with drawing from the PappaWheelie Invisible 15 Round RAMI holster.
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=95318.msg732479#msg732479
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 09:50:06 PM by PappaWheelie »
Member, Gun Owners of America
CC: CZ 2075 RAMI BD in PappaWheelie Invisible 15 Round RAMI Holster
Homeboy: CZ 97 BD, Underwood 45 Super 120 Grain Xtreme Defender ammo
UBG: CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical Urban Grey Suppressor-ready
-all w/ CGW Short Reset Kit/1485-T2 Disco, 5 "Thick" Trigger, polished SA tooth

Offline mesias

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 27
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2019, 10:19:23 AM »
I don't agree with the scam term, this was just CZ's approach to a decocker. If it works for you, use it. If not, find another firearm that works for you.
It is true, in my opinion, SA/DA with safety give you more options but I do like the safer decocking process using the decocker lever. Also, I don't trust myself remembering to take the safety off in a stressful situation and I would not carry SA without safety on with a 3 lbs trigger. Hence, I choose to carry a decocker version with one in the pipe. Practice your you initial DA pull and that should be it.

Offline hansb57

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
Re: How to Carry!!
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 11:18:11 AM »
I hope you guys dont mind me asking a question as a non carrier from abroad.
When you come home, do you unload your carry guns or put them away holstered and ready to take out the next day??
Can I compare carrying a gun with carrying your drivers license?  You have it in your wallet when you go out and only take it out when needed?  (I mean at the range or to clean or function check it)

Thanks!