Who is planning to form 1 their Scorpion soon?

[Das Hugh!]

Yeah. It's nuts. Id love to see some YouTube content creator somehow find two ex or current ATF agents. Then let them examine the identical same pistol with a brace etc. Then have them both privately rate it in a separate room. Then have them come out and compare notes. I'm sure that even after schooling thier results will vary wildly. But I'm hoping it's so silly it don't pan out. They got a bulge when they took bumpstocks. The community didn't care much and considered it low hanging fruit per say to appease the system. And let it go too easy. I didn't like how it was done either with a stroke of a pen. It set a bad legal precedent.  But if I recall correctly there was only some laughable number of them turned in. Like 50 or something like that I heard. So even those are floating around still. But I hope states step in and say enough is enough and provide some shelter vs the over reaching stuff happening. And I've not heard anyone yet discuss how this could affect the import of pistols either yet. With clarification done now as far as even the types of sights that can be attached and considered a pistol pushed more.. it makes me wonder if it will affect the sales of like MP5's etc seeing how they have rifle like sights.. thier weights etc. Anyone know if there will be any affects downhill with rulings like this in those aspects later down the road? I've only been in this realm of things for over a year now and it's a mess to wrap ya head around. But even I can see this can have further repercussions down the road other than what's right in front of us. Any thoughts on that yet from anyone?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[Das Hugh!]

But now that my mind is wondering.. future legal loopholes lol. Maybe this can become a thing? Drop the brace altogether.  Then on the arm bar.. u instead add another 1913 slot. And that slot then holds your magazine vertically via a clip attachment. You now then have yaself the first folding/and or sliding adjustment magazine holder!.. you're welcome CZ. go and patent it and make many lol. Kinda like how I have this one shown. Just minus the straps.. and instead yeah just have a mag as a brace instead lol. Has that ever been a thing sold? I'll have to Google it when done cooking [emoji38]

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[fisterkev]

The entire purpose of this rule change is to get you to register your firearm. They don't care about the brace, they want the firearm that it's attached to.

If you know your history, then you know that there's only one reason to establish a registry.

Anything you register now is simply going to be confiscated later on. And when you register it, you're on their radar, and they have an excuse to come to your house later on.

No thanks. YMMV, but I'll take the brace off and ditch it before I invite the AFT into my life.

[Das Hugh!]

Yeah I agree. I don't like lists. My scorpion tho I have it setup to run fine with a brace or with just a single point stretchy sling. I can press out the sling and use it that way pretty stable along with a big Ole eotech sight. I also have a laser flashlight combo on it and with a touch of a button I can hip fire it anyways. So that one won't bother me that much. Guess I can get the same light setup for the 57.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[Das Hugh!]

Serious question tho. Could I simply remove the cuff off my brace arm and run just the stick? It would be like an AR tube basically. Any thoughts?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[Das Hugh!]

Ok. I can live with the stick if needs be lol. And if SHTF a cuff is the last of my worries I suppose lol. And I need to write them also. I haven't yet. I went to once bust was busy and when I checked it.. it was asking for a number to be attached etc and it was in an article in such a way if I recall I couldn't copy and paste in and ensure I didn't botch it so I decided to wait. Anyways.  I know form letters aren't allowed and will be tossed. But has anyone made a template that's shareable yet? One I can copy and paste then fill in with my ramblings. One that already has the number applied in the correct way.. and I can simply add the rest and click send. And idiot proof version so to speak lol?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[mike72ss]

Ok. I can live with the stick if needs be lol. And if SHTF a cuff is the last of my worries I suppose lol. And I need to write them also. I haven't yet. I went to once bust was busy and when I checked it.. it was asking for a number to be attached etc and it was in an article in such a way if I recall I couldn't copy and paste in and ensure I didn't botch it so I decided to wait. Anyways.  I know form letters aren't allowed and will be tossed. But has anyone made a template that's shareable yet? One I can copy and paste then fill in with my ramblings. One that already has the number applied in the correct way.. and I can simply add the rest and click send. And idiot proof version so to speak lol?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

Just read some of the comments to get an idea of what you want to say.  It doesn't have to be long, just touch on a couple points in your own words or cut/paste a few lines from a few comments if you want to.

The more comments the better.  We need to start getting more involved even if it doesn't affect you directly.

https://www.regulations.gov/document/ATF-2021-0002-0001/comment

[Das Hugh!]

I know that. Sorry. I meant. How exactly is the number to be used in the message. Should it be on a separate sheet.. like a title page?.. up in a margin.. inside the actual text.. in the message name itself? All of the above? I'm sure they'll use any reasons to toss it out.  So figured I'd ask to kind of see a "known valid model".. and base mine off of it.. so to speak. When I've seen legal papers in past there was many times a reference number.. case number and all that stuff kinda in a margin then a body of the letter with the text of what you're saying etc. In like a catalogable format. Maybe it won't matter but yeah wanting to  be certain. I'm sure others have wondered the same thing maybe?

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[Northern]

Looking at the comments posted on the regulation’s website, I find myself wishing that more comments would talk about things like why the rule is unworkable, or why pistol braces pose no specific threat, or what it means to them to arbitrarily have to pay $200 to retain an item they own that was already legal.
The comments that simply state that it violates the 2nd amendment aren’t very meaningful as far as the commenting process goes. Comments that describe a negative impact of the law on people’s lives can have an affect on decision makers as can comments showing that anyone with knowledge of braces and rifles/pistols will recognize how senseless and unworkable the criteria are.

[Das Hugh!]

Yeah. I'm sure way more than 400 posted. They're tossing them for small clerical issues etc. So I'd like to see exactly what an approved letter looks like so I can do it the same way. And yeah.. saw a video that pointed out that there's a clause in thier rules that says basically no matter what score u come up with. They have the power to charge ya anyways if they deem it fit that you're trying to circumvent the NFA with a pistol if they so choose to say you are no matter the score. And the guy in video made a good point too about that. And said that if that's the case even a COLT 1911 is made ro circumvent the roster by skirting the criteria they layed out to make the gun be on a roster. Or any other non sbr for that matter lol. So I'm deffo gonna try to find a legit accepted version and copy and paste all the format then insert my 2 cents

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[Das Hugh!]

I saw the Yankee Marshall guy on YouTube do a video and claim he had a MP5 with a brace that would make the guidelines. I think he was very mistaken in how he graded it. So far I haven't seen a single model of anything yet that can safely be said is legal according to the guidelines they're proposing

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[Northern]

Northern, I am unable to find either of my (different) submissions by referencing the verification codes of the comments at regulations.gov

Upon emailing regulations helpdesk to ask them why, this was the information that I received.  The short answer is that the ATF is responsible for what is being posted publicly and they are basically witholding whatever they want to and are censoring all responses.

This is a copy and paste of the specific email from the helpdesk.

So, it's not that people are not commenting.  The ATF directly are only posting what they want anyone to read.  Emphasis below in bold.

Additional Comments:
Entered on 06/14/2021 at 09:28:27 EDT (GMT-0400) by Pat M:
To date ATF has received 36714 comments to docket ATF-2021-0002 of which 418 comments have been posted for public view. The posting of comments is managed directly by the agency.
 
For additional information please contact the agency representative listed in the For Further Information Contact section of the proposed rule directly:

Denise Brown, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives; telephone: (202) 648-7070 (this is not a toll-free number).
 
Thank you for contacting the Regulations.gov Help Desk

John A., this is super frustrating. Keep trying!

[fisterkev]

If you're having issues submitting a comment, you can always use GOA's form message system to do it. There's a spot there that you can personalize it with as well. I find their automated doodads convenient for stuff like this.

https://www.gunowners.org/na06102021/

They also have a helpful rundown on how to write comments:

https://www.gunowners.org/atf-comments-faqs/

While you're at it, you can use their other auto-doodads to send letters to your Senators and demand they stop Chipman from climbing into the saddle at AFT. They have one for the proposed 80% ban, too.

[fisterkev]

I saw the Yankee Marshall guy on YouTube do a video and claim he had a MP5 with a brace that would make the guidelines. I think he was very mistaken in how he graded it. So far I haven't seen a single model of anything yet that can safely be said is legal according to the guidelines they're proposing

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

The problem that everyone will have with trying to play the worksheet game and getting under the magical and arbitrary 4 points is this:

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives reserves the right to preclude classification as a pistol with a “stabilizing braces” for any firearm that achieves an apparent qualifying score but is an attempt to make a “short-barreled rifle” and circumvent the GCA or NFA."

That's at the top of the worksheet. In English, it means that the AFT reserves the right to declare your firearm a SBR regardless of whether achieves a "passing" score on the worksheet. They'll just say it's a SBR anyway.

They want you to either register it, or they want you to be a felon. I'm not going to play that game.

[Das Hugh!]

Yep. I also think he didn't score it as an agent would. If he's correct.. a scorpion with same style brace would pass also. And yes.. that clause screws the pooch on any gun trying to pass the rules. And it can be argued with that clause that if someone makes a standard colt pistol.. they too did so to circumvent the roster lol. So that clause is a catch all for all firearms tbh.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk