Author Topic: Colt will ruin CZ.  (Read 23412 times)

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Offline Bdubbs

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2022, 05:43:11 PM »
I considered most of that before I made my post. To be clear, I'm not pointing any fingers at CZ, just one middle finger at Colt. It will take a lot for me to think of them as one entity. Had CZ not bought Colt I believe they would have weathered the current situation much better.

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2022, 11:10:36 PM »
You might look into international politics to see why some products might not be available/profitable. First, there seems to be this major land war going on nearby, (583 miles from uhersky Brod to Kiev), which has many of the European powers looking a little closer to home when it comes to weapons production. I would be quite surprised if CZ-UB hasn't diverted a LOT of production capacity to BREN 2 and P-10 firearms for use either local or diverted to Ukraine. ]
Note - this post does NOT open the floor for debate on the war, merely pointing out what is most likely taking place.
Throw in the fact that Trudeau in Canada, where Colt Canada is located, has recently made a LOT of waves with freezing production/importation of handguns and semi auto rifles, etc., which means that CZ must wonder if they bought a pig in a poke with the likely huge financial loss with Colt Canaga trying to stumble along with only military/law enforcement sales.
Then, come home to the US, where the current Administration continuously talks "assault weapon bans", "high, (?), capacity magazine bans" and other rot, and states enact laws to hold firearms manufacturers guilty of criminal misuse of lawfully sold products. Throw in that CZ had money sunk into the startup factory in Little Rock that will likely never be finished with the acquisition of Colt, and you have a very interesting financial and political landscape to navigate.
I don't doubt the influence of all these factors is what has CZ/Colt reducing production of some models, not sinking money in uncertain R&D, and perhaps just trying to catch a breath before the next idiocy. I have a strong feeling that might be the reason the BREN 2 BR has been more or less permanently shelved for US production.
So, just to be fair, I'd say wait until Jan or Feb 2023 to point the fingers at CZ, and see what might be happening.


None of that happening in the world or in politics is going to be helped by CZ pouring stupid money into moribund Colt. No doubt, burning money with the incompetent Colt management and decrepit, run down factory diminishes CZ’s war efforts as well as their business interests. In fact, Colt is a liability where it is now, just waiting for CT to get around to suing them into oblivion for “gun violence” like they did with Remington.

Just take the Colt trademark (the only thing of any value, anyway) and move it down South into new facilities where it will be appreciated and supported and where CZ & Colt will prosper. If Fidelito wants to screw with Colt Canada, just shut it all down and move it down South as well.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2022, 05:38:21 AM by MeatAxe »

Offline RSR

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2022, 01:31:15 AM »
You might look into international politics to see why some products might not be available/profitable. First, there seems to be this major land war going on nearby, (583 miles from uhersky Brod to Kiev), which has many of the European powers looking a little closer to home when it comes to weapons production. I would be quite surprised if CZ-UB hasn't diverted a LOT of production capacity to BREN 2 and P-10 firearms for use either local or diverted to Ukraine. ]
Note - this post does NOT open the floor for debate on the war, merely pointing out what is most likely taking place.
Throw in the fact that Trudeau in Canada, where Colt Canada is located, has recently made a LOT of waves with freezing production/importation of handguns and semi auto rifles, etc., which means that CZ must wonder if they bought a pig in a poke with the likely huge financial loss with Colt Canaga trying to stumble along with only military/law enforcement sales.
Then, come home to the US, where the current Administration continuously talks "assault weapon bans", "high, (?), capacity magazine bans" and other rot, and states enact laws to hold firearms manufacturers guilty of criminal misuse of lawfully sold products. Throw in that CZ had money sunk into the startup factory in Little Rock that will likely never be finished with the acquisition of Colt, and you have a very interesting financial and political landscape to navigate.
I don't doubt the influence of all these factors is what has CZ/Colt reducing production of some models, not sinking money in uncertain R&D, and perhaps just trying to catch a breath before the next idiocy. I have a strong feeling that might be the reason the BREN 2 BR has been more or less permanently shelved for US production.
So, just to be fair, I'd say wait until Jan or Feb 2023 to point the fingers at CZ, and see what might be happening.

Ukraine's militia/second line troops small arms are largely com-bloc/Soviet-era, and shouldn't be too relevant -- and can't imagine the Bren alone heading into Ukraine for foreign troops would bottleneck production.  If the Czech Republic or other nations are plusing up arms, that's a possibility, though doubtful.

IIRC, the CZ handguns and rifles still have separate production lines due to most still requiring at least some hand fitting.

The purpose of Colt purchasing Diemaco/Colt Canada was for their intellectual property, and same for CZ-UB.  Uncertain since the rise of the HK-416/417, but prior Colt Canada supplied most of Western Europe's SOF w/ their M4s/equivalent.  Under existing treaties, I don't think Trudeau can halt military sales or export of machines and equipment to the US should CZ-UB decide to move production.

The US Supreme Court just poured water on all of the gun grabbers schemes in the NYSRPA vs Bruen decision.

The modern business world is all about "beating expectations" in quarterly business filings w/ the FEC or similar if funded by private equity (uncertain of CZ-UB's deal composition).  The goal is to return increasing profits to shareholders regardless of detriment to underlying business.  Just look at Remington.

Onshoring is increasingly common in manufacturing (bringing jobs back to America) AND if CZ-UB doesn't move forward w/ its AR factory, it will lose $18 million in forgiveable loans.

Yes, with the COVID disruptions, we're still not back to whatever the new normal will be -- it's still a time of turmoil and atypical business operations and supply chains.

Offline Hammer Time

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2022, 02:16:06 PM »
Anyone had any interactions with CZ webstore customer service lately?

Where is the DWX?

Why have so many relevant products been discontinued?

The kind of resources CZ will have to dump into Colt just to keep it afloat is going to be ugly. I doubt Colt will be profitable for years to come.

No trolling here. I intended to start a discussion not an argument. That is my opinion based on recent experience and observation. I'm not happy about it but that's how it looks to me.

I think your questions are valid, and they are similar to my own. I don't buy that CZ is "so busy" providing arms to the conflict in Ukraine that it has affected their US production. I also don't buy that any of the anti-gun rhetoric coming from the current Administration (which is certainly nothing new) is "scaring them off" from cranking up production.

I also still don't understand how it was CZ that bought Colt, and yet somehow Colt executives are now running CZ USA?!? Because the track record at Colt has been so stellar in the last decade that CZ was like, "hey you guys are clearly already doing a great job, how about we hand over our U.S. operation to you?!?"

There is a lot about this whole thing that doesn't seem to add up. And at the end of the day, as a simple customer and someone who really enjoys the CZ, Dan Wesson and Colt products that I own, I was hoping for more excitement and momentum behind these threee unified brands by this point. Instead, it's been nothing but crickets and cutting back. I don't get it.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2022, 05:01:45 PM by Hammer Time »

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2022, 02:52:42 PM »
Anyone had any interactions with CZ webstore customer service lately?

Where is the DWX?

Why have so many relevant products been discontinued?

The kind of resources CZ will have to dump into Colt just to keep it afloat is going to be ugly. I doubt Colt will be profitable for years to come.

No trolling here. I intended to start a discussion not an argument. That is my opinion based on recent experience and observation. I'm not happy about it but that's how it looks to me.

I think your questions are valid, and they are similar to my own. I don't buy that CZ is "so busy" providing arms to the conflict in Ukraine that it has affected their US production. I also don't buy that any of the anti-gun rhetoric coming from the current Administration (which is certainly nothing new) is "scaring them off" from cranking up production.

I also still don't understand how it was CZ that bought Colt, and yet somehow Colt executives are now running CZ USA?!? Because the track record at Colt has been so stellar in the last decade that CZ was like, "hey you guys are clearly already doing a great job, how about we hand over our U.S. operation to you?!?"

There is a lot about this whole thing that doesn't seem to add up. And at the end of the day, as a simple customer and someone who really enjys the CZ, Dan Wesson and Colt products that I own, I was hoping for more excitement and momentum behind these threee unfied brands by this point. Instead, it's been nothing but crickets and cutting back. I don't get it.


God, I hope Colt’s management is not running the whole show now. That would truly be the kiss of death for CZ.

Offline crosstimbers

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2022, 04:46:49 PM »
Anyone had any interactions with CZ webstore customer service lately?

Where is the DWX?

Why have so many relevant products been discontinued?

The kind of resources CZ will have to dump into Colt just to keep it afloat is going to be ugly. I doubt Colt will be profitable for years to come.

No trolling here. I intended to start a discussion not an argument. That is my opinion based on recent experience and observation. I'm not happy about it but that's how it looks to me.

I think your questions are valid, and they are similar to my own. I don't buy that CZ is "so busy" providing arms to the conflict in Ukraine that it has affected their US production. I also don't buy that any of the anti-gun rhetoric coming from the current Administration (which is certainly nothing new) is "scaring them off" from cranking up production.

I also still don't understand how it was CZ that bought Colt, and yet somehow Colt executives are now running CZ USA?!? Because the track record at Colt has been so stellar in the last decade that CZ was like, "hey you guys are clearly already doing a great job, how about we hand over our U.S. operation to you?!?"

There is a lot about this whole thing that doesn't seem to add up. And at the end of the day, as a simple customer and someone who really enjys the CZ, Dan Wesson and Colt products that I own, I was hoping for more excitement and momentum behind these threee unfied brands by this point. Instead, it's been nothing but crickets and cutting back. I don't get it.


God, I hope Colt’s management is not running the whole show now. That would truly be the kiss of death for CZ.

I couldn't agree more.
It's not saving any water if you have to flush it over and over....

Offline The Principal

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2022, 08:13:18 AM »
I’m on the flip side, where I don’t see Colt negativity impacting CZ. I don’t think CZ puts much creative or manufacturing control in it’s US operation; I think all of the strings are pulled from their motherland. The US operation seems to be largely based on distribution and marketing. The CZ conglomerate seems to know how to profit from military contracts and sport, with innovation stemming from both. I see a natural pause due to Covid and war, and expect great things to come.

Offline RSR

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2022, 04:18:49 AM »
I’m on the flip side, where I don’t see Colt negativity impacting CZ. I don’t think CZ puts much creative or manufacturing control in it’s US operation; I think all of the strings are pulled from their motherland. The US operation seems to be largely based on distribution and marketing. The CZ conglomerate seems to know how to profit from military contracts and sport, with innovation stemming from both. I see a natural pause due to Covid and war, and expect great things to come.

Yes, CZ's purchase of Colt and domestic production factories is about chasing military and law enforcement contracts IMO. 

The quarterly gains investors (public or private equity) investors expect if not demand nowadays can really only be achieved through finding new markets, business acquistion, or licensing or selling off intellectual property -- so it might be partially due to this, but I really think it's primarily the former.

Offline hodge

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2022, 12:21:40 PM »
"Not entirely sure I follow this word salad, but will assume that English isn't your first language."
Have you heard Kamala Harris speak? I took it that donavo was mimicking her, which is funny.

Offline donavo

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2022, 01:36:27 PM »
lol i hadnt even read the thread but the admins said i have to have 25 posts to freaking pm a dude, so here i am adding my very important opinion in matters i know nothing about

Offline crosstimbers

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2022, 01:42:03 PM »
colt and cz must work together as they continue to work together, to address these issues and tackle these challenges and to work together as they continue to work. operating from the new norms rules and agreements that they will convene, to work together on.

Not entirely sure I follow this word salad, but will assume that English isn't your first language.  CZ now owns Colt b/c of Colt's failures.  CZ can choose to be collaborative or adversarial in this acquisition to whatever extent their acquisition agreement allows (for instance, don't know if it requires assuming any union/labor contract obligations, keeping operations in CT, etc.), but the fact of the matter, again, is that CZ was able to acquire Colt b/c of Colt's failures, primarily in regards to profitability -- to be clear that's a problem primarily of management, not frontline employees. 

IMO, the best thing CZ could do is to pull off the bandaid and get to work on fixing problems and restoring solvency.  That may or may not mean relocating Colt from CT, upgrading machining, eliminating staff redundancy because of improved machinery, etc.

Because of the worksmanship/craftsmanship of CZ firearms, I am however confident that CZ appreciates skilled employees and won't go full six sigma (terminating employees to the max/max cost-cutting) or the private equity route to monetize everything of value to themselves before leaving only a carcass, like occurred with private equity's acquisition of Remington/Big Green before it was sold off in pieces in bankruptcy.

So I would hope that any changes made give the competent current Colt employees the opportunity to continue employment in whatever comes next.  But that doesn't mean CZ and Colt working together - it means Colt bending a knee, and being open to and recognizing the need for learning from the successes of CZ across-the-board.

"word salad"....that just entered my phraseology.
It's not saving any water if you have to flush it over and over....

Offline Grendel

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2022, 01:42:07 PM »
lol i hadnt even read the thread but the admins said i have to have 25 posts to freaking pm a dude, so here i am adding my very important opinion in matters i know nothing about

You are wearing out your welcome here. The restrictions are in place to protect the members. You would know this if you took the time to read the FAQ and other information pertaining to them.

If they are so onerous or restrictive that you find this forum less than ideal, I suggest you take your passive aggressive attitude elsewhere.
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Offline donavo

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2022, 01:56:43 PM »
lol i hadnt even read the thread but the admins said i have to have 25 posts to freaking pm a dude, so here i am adding my very important opinion in matters i know nothing about

You are wearing out your welcome here. The restrictions are in place to protect the members. You would know this if you took the time to read the FAQ and other information pertaining to them.

If they are so onerous or restrictive that you find this forum less than ideal, I suggest you take your passive aggressive attitude elsewhere.

make up your mind pal, you want me contributing to threads like you just did here or you want me containing my 25 posts in my own thread so i dont bother anybody? i got my first CZ recently, im trying to buy something from a guy on here and for some reason you decided that you gotta be the "please wear your mask" karen?

Offline Grendel

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2022, 05:27:59 PM »
lol i hadnt even read the thread but the admins said i have to have 25 posts to freaking pm a dude, so here i am adding my very important opinion in matters i know nothing about

You are wearing out your welcome here. The restrictions are in place to protect the members. You would know this if you took the time to read the FAQ and other information pertaining to them.

If they are so onerous or restrictive that you find this forum less than ideal, I suggest you take your passive aggressive attitude elsewhere.

make up your mind pal, you want me contributing to threads like you just did here or you want me containing my 25 posts in my own thread so i dont bother anybody? i got my first CZ recently, im trying to buy something from a guy on here and for some reason you decided that you gotta be the "please wear your mask" karen?

30 days moderated status,  'pal'

You can cool your jets for a while and use the time to decide whether you want to stay or not.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:07:02 PM by Grendel »
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus

Inter arma enim silent leges - Cicero

I wasn't born in America, but I got here as fast as I could.

Offline Stuart

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Re: Colt will ruin CZ.
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2022, 09:13:49 PM »
Some big changes at CZ USA this week.