CZ TS2 Failure to Feed

[dabljues]

Thank you so much for spending so much time here with me! I really appreciate it.

Yeah, hopefully there'll be free slots tomorrow, so I'll be able to spend some time on the range. I'm more optimistic now about the extractor hypothesis, because by playing with the gun I realized that the "sloppiness" of the slide kinda occurs only on the range, where there are bullets involved. Without them, the gun is so smooth and snappy at the same time. No dragging or strange behavior whatsoever.

I'll come back here and give my feedback, maybe it'll help other people

[dabljues]

Okay, it took me some time, but I'm coming with an update

So yesterday I went to the range. I shot 35 rounds of S&B 124grain and whoops - failure to feed. It could be random, but I started thinking.

Let me start with the fact (I mentioned it in the original post), that I have some things changed in the gun:

* trigger spring
* sear spring
* firing pin spring
* recoil spring and the guide rod

I forgot the guide rod part. So I bought this kit: https://b2b.eemann.tech/et-cz-75-ts/5035-eemann-techupgrade-kit-for-cz-75-ts.html. I didn't use all the parts (e.g. I didn't change the trigger). It comes witht this 9lbs recoil spring and a guide rod - that's what I used back when I was having FTFs every round. And, as I mentioned earlier, I took out the recoil spring and put their other ones - like this one: https://b2b.eemann.tech/eemann-tech/1444-2844-eemann-tech-competition-recoil-spring-for-cz.html#/58-spring_weight-13_lbs. But this was like 2 months ago. And before you ask: I don't really have access to CGW parts where I live in (pain).

So yesterday I took the factory guide rod + recoil spring (and a buffer) with me. Just to see if maybe the recoil spring is the culprit (I didn't think much about the guide rod). After the aforementioned failure to feed happened, I took out the short guide rod + the 13lbs recoil spring from Eemann Tech from the gun and put the original ones (factory full length guide rod and factory recoil spring that came on it). And the FTFs stopped. I shot like over 150 rounds in that configuration with no issues (I even changed the ammo that was even more problematic with the previous setup - limit.cz).

And I started wondering - is it the full length guide rod or the spring? Or the fact that the springs are different. Let me show you how everything looks like:

Factory guide rod (full length)


Factory recoil spring:


Factory guide rod + factory recoil spring: (the springs hangs onto the rod, doesn't fall)


Eemann Tech steel guide rod:


Eemann Tech buffer: (notice the small flap)


Eemann Tech guide rod + Eemann Tech competition recoil spring (13lbs)


Eemann Tech guide rod + Eemann Tech competition recoil spring (13lbs) again (there's nothing holding the spring to the rod)


Guide rod + springs compared (top - factory, bottom - eemann tech):


Recoil springs compared:


Okay, that's a lot of images, I'm sorry, I just wanted to show it all. So the most interesting thing, I guess, it the comparison betwen guide rods and springs itself. Obviously the factory guide rod is full length and the one I have is short. The big difference between the factory recoil spring and the Eemann Tech ones is the fact that the factory one kinda comes together just a tiny bit on one end which makes it harder to put on the guide rod (at the end) - you have to force it (or if you're taking it down, you have to pull, it won't fall off). None of the other springs have it.

So the page for the white recoil spring (which I have been using till yesterday) says:

The Eemann Tech competition recoil spring has been specially designed for:
CZ 75 B, CZ 85 B, CZ 75 SP-01/Tactical/Shadow/Shadow2/Tactical Sports/Tactical Sports2

Also this spring fits all CZ 75 pistols with long Recoil Spring Guide rods.

In my mind, this doesn't mean that they actually require having a long guide rod in TS2 to make this spring work. Especially since they provide it in a kit for Tactical Sports. Here you can even see the tutorial of the guys from Eemann Tech installing a buffer for TS and they have the short guide rod there.

Okay, now I've shown everything, I want to ask you a question Well, what should I do? I know I can use the factory guide rod + spring but if I ever want to change something (like the spring, for example), then I have no options, but just buying straight from CZ (to get that "bottlenecked" type). Is there something I am doing wrong with those 3rd party parts? Because it seems it should be working, but it's not. Maybe I should buy the full length guide rod from Eemann Tech and try their springs on it?

BTW - I tried putting the Eemann Tech spring (the white one) on the factory guide rod - I had a FTF each round. A different one actually - usually I can see the round by looking at the top of the gun (like half an inch). Here, the slide was almost closed - kinda like OOB, but I'm afraid I could actually fire it (didn't test it obviously, unloaded immediately).

In the end, I don't know. Is it the length of the guide rod? The length of the spring? Or the fact that the factory spring latches itself onto the factory guide rod? Or maybe a mixture of some of those?

I know this is a very long post, again, I'm sorry. I'd really appreciate some insight, because I'm a babe in the woods here

[alp3367]

 What are you trying to achieve with using a non-factory recoil spring and guide rod? If the factory stuff works well and the other doesn't...

 I noticed you did mention a concern over a single source. I'd just suggest buying some extra springs when they're in stock, maybe an extra guide rod. The odds of breaking two guide rods are pretty slim. And a few extra springs (that at least in the U.S. are pretty cheap) should have you covered for many years, unless you are a very high volume shooter.

[dabljues]

What are you trying to achieve with using a non-factory recoil spring and guide rod? If the factory stuff works well and the other doesn't...

That's a fair question. Well, I'm trying to experiment with stuff. I mean, at least for now, I don't even do practical shooting so split times, speed - they don't matter to me. I wanted to see just how changing some stuff may change the overall feeling of the gun. For example, as for the recoil spring, the easier gun racking (so trying out the lower power recoil spring) would be a plus. Since my factory one (at least according to CZ) is 13 lbs and this is the lowest they offer, I had to buy from 3rd party. Plus, shops in my country have plenty of springs from like Eemann Tech, the original CZ ones are really scarce. I know it's doable (I can even order from Czech Republic, my country literally borders it), but I don't know, just wanted to try stuff out.

Additionally, it'd be good to figure those things out, since even if I don't have to do this, other people may and then those questions may arise again. Like the discussion I have with my inner self - long guide rod vs short guide rod, spring that latches itself onto the rod vs the one that doesn't. Lengths, etc. And it's sometimes difficult to find articles/vidoes about it, since most of the things are about the Shadow 2. And in this example, well, maybe they do the springs for the Shadow 2 which are just too short for the TS2 (although in this specific case they say it's okay)

[timmy75]

@dabljues
my fellow european, maybe it would be smart to put all stock parts and spings back in place and then try how it works?
If your pistol works properly in stock configuration and factory ammo, then use aftermarket parts and springs one by one to find out which one might cause trouble.

[tdogg]

It's apparent that the Eemann spring is failing to cycle the slide properly.  I'm not sure I would ever use a short guide rod unless the gun was designed to use it.

Recoil springs should be selected:

1. to ensure the gun cycles
2. enable fast sight realignment
3. proper case ejection distance

It appears your not even getting past the primary need of a recoil spring with the Eemann tech spring/guide rod.

How does the gun feel and shoot with the stock spring?  Do the cases land 6-8 ft from the shooting position?  If yes to both of these, then why change?

I use Wolff springs (they do ship internationally).  You can get OEM/aftermarket springs at various vendors abroad (Cesar shop, cz-parts, eric grauffel, etc...).  Apparently the stock recoil spring weight is 14lbs for 9mm CZ pistols.

Cheers,
Toby

[dabljues]

@timmy75

my fellow european, maybe it would be smart to put all stock parts and spings back in place and then try how it works?
If your pistol works properly in stock configuration and factory ammo, then use aftermarket parts and springs one by one to find out which one might cause trouble.

That's what I did and it works (I don't know if 150+ rounds is enough of a sample size). And I tried just having one variable - the spring (I put the Eemann Tech spring on the original guide rod), the gun failed to cycle each time. As for other parts I changed, they don't matter here (or at least I see no reason why they would've - trigger, sear and firing pin springs), so the only variable is the guide rod + the spring. I also tried multiple springs on the short guide rod (9lbs - FTF each time, 11-13 pretty similar results). I don't know man. I guess I can stick to the factory parts, though I'd probably cut myself if this (the changing out of the parts) turned out not to be the root cause

@tdogg

How does the gun feel and shoot with the stock spring?  Do the cases land 6-8 ft from the shooting position?  If yes to both of these, then why change?

Unfortunately, I can't test it. I only shoot on an indoor range (I'm in a club, European laws strike again), outdoor ranges are available, but I'd have to arrange it, it's not so easy for me, at least for now.

As for how the gun feels - hard to say. When I was shooting yesterday, it doesn't feel particularly snappy, the muzzle doesn't dip. I am able to control the recoil (much better than in my other guns - again, looking at you, high bore axis, striker-fired M17 ). But I don't know exactly, since I don't know what "fast sight realignment" should be. Am I there yet and therefore should I help myself with selecting a proper/better recoil spring, or not - can't really say.

Apparently the stock recoil spring weight is 14lbs for 9mm CZ pistols.

I asked CZ about this a while ago and here's what they said:

Your question:

Hi! I wanted to buy some backup springs for my CZ TS2 pistol (base model), but in order to get the right ones, I need to know the factory weights. The two springs I am interested in are: recoil and hammer (main) spring. On the internet, there are many offerings of those springs, with many weights (like 10lbs, 12lbs, 16lbs etc.). So what I wanted to ask you: what is the weight of the factory recoil spring in CZ TS2 and what is the weight of the factory hammer spring in CZ TS2? (I guess in lbs or kilograms)

Thanks in advance!

------------------------------

Thank you for your message.

Out of the factory, this gun comes with a 13 lb recoil spring, main spring is then 16 lb.

Hope it helps.

So, they say it's 13 (that's why I use the white Eemann Tech one, which is also 13lbs).

Well, I don't know. I wouldn't change anything in my carry gun (ironically, I can carry a loaded gun with a round in the chamber in my country), obviously, but here I just wanted to try stuff out. Maybe dampen out the recoil, see how the gun would feel during firing. All you guys are right - I don't have to do this. I was just surprised that many people do and they don't seem to have those issues (CZs seem to be known for their reliability, even the race guns), while I do. The thing that's bugging me is the fact that I remember the FTFs happening before I changed stuff in the gun. Now this may have been due to the fact that the gun had to be broken in or maybe I polished some parts since then and now, with the factory parts, it would work (like it worked yesterday), but I'm not sure

[timmy75]

That's what I did and it works (I don't know if 150+ rounds is enough of a sample size). And I tried just having one variable - the spring (I put the Eemann Tech spring on the original guide rod), the gun failed to cycle each time. As for other parts I changed, they don't matter here (or at least I see no reason why they would've - trigger, sear and firing pin springs), so the only variable is the guide rod + the spring. I also tried multiple springs on the short guide rod (9lbs - FTF each time, 11-13 pretty similar results). I don't know man. I guess I can stick to the factory parts, though I'd probably cut myself if this (the changing out of the parts) turned out not to be the root cause

I don't know why are you trying to use short guide rod and 8lb spring? Any benefits from that? Factory spring is 13lb with full lenght guide rod. If you are shooting factory ammo (145 PF) just leave it as it is. If you are tuning your pistol for minor (~130 PF) load, just buy factory CZUB 11lb recoil spring as intended.

[dabljues]

I don't know why are you trying to use short guide rod and 8lb spring? Any benefits from that? Factory spring is 13lb with full lenght guide rod

When I was putting this stuff in my gun, I wasn't that experienced. Figured there may be a reason why are they giving me the short guide rod. Even CZ sells it (it's a plastic one, but the one I have is steel). EG sells it as well. As for the benefits - none so far (I am using the 13lbs non-factory one from Eemann Tech). Aside from the topic of this thread FTFs

As for 11lbs spring (or a lower power than 13) - CZ sells only https://eshop.czub.cz/en/pistole/serie-cz-75-ts/vratna-pruzina-13lbs-sp-01-ts.html and 16lbs

[timmy75]

https://eshop.czub.cz/en/pistole/serie-cz-shadow-1/pruzina-vratna-11lbs-sp-01.html
https://www.cz-spare.parts/recoil-spring-11-lbs-cz-75-sp-01

This one will fit.

All "orange" models have 3 recoil springs in box: 11, 13 and 16

IMHO there is no reason to go lower, 11 works.

[dabljues]

https://eshop.czub.cz/en/pistole/serie-cz-shadow-1/pruzina-vratna-11lbs-sp-01.html
https://www.cz-spare.parts/recoil-spring-11-lbs-cz-75-sp-01

This one will fit.

All "orange" models have 3 recoil springs in box: 11, 13 and 16

I didn't find the 11lbs one on the CZ website because they don't list it as a part under "CZ 75 TS/TS2..." category. That makes me wonder if it won't be like, I don't know, too short? (SP-01 and Shadow 2 are shorter than the TS/TS2). However, the 13lbs one is shown as the one for both SP-01 and TS, so who knows.

For example on this picture:



The factory spring is the same length as the Eemann Tech 14lbs one (it's supposedly designated for "CZ 75", the compatibility list includes TS2). The spring that I use is 13lbs, but it's noticeably shorter - it's their "competition line" (this one is marketed as one for "CZ 75/CZ Shadow 2". I'm wondering if the spring that's designated (on CZ site) for SP-01 won't be shorter as well (but maybe it's the same one, since I know there are 3 springs in the box for TSO, they may just not include the 11 as the one for TS, although it "fits".

I'm kinda curious if just buying their regular 11 or 13lbs (from Eemann Tech) spring (or trying the 14lbs one I have) would bring me back into the safe territory. Like - no malfunctions, but still having a better access to the parts (and better range of power selection than the springs from the official CZ shop).  Or I can just bite the the bullet, pay a little more (both in money and time) and get this stuff from CZ, I don't know

[dabljues]

I ended up buying the regular springs from Eemann Tech (not those "competition" ones, cuz they seem shorter) that seem to resemble the original CZ springs (the only difference is that they don't seem to bottleneck at one end - latching themselves onto the guide rod). I'm gonna test them with the factory guide rod this week.

If that doesn't work, I'm biting the bullet and ordering 11, 13 and 16lbs springs from CZ (gonna use that opportunity to finally order a diopter and closed front sight for my CZ 457).

[dabljues]

An update.

Well, yesterday I tried the springs I ordered. And again, I had FTFs with for example the 11lbs one. I switched to a 13lbs one and shot like 200 rounds no problem. So the conclusion would be for me - anything less than 13lbs is not right here for me. So the factory 13lbs and the 13lbs one from Eemann Tech work flawlessly. I can feel it especially when slingshotting - with the 11lbs spring I can feel a lil' hangup when the round goes into the chamber. With 13lbs spring it's snappy and works every time.

I will order an 11lbs spring from CZ to check it out as well, but for now I know one thing - just get 13lbs springs if those that I have get worn out.

It's still kinda strange for me since I see many posts and some videos on YT of people running 11, even 10lbs springs in TS2 without an issue. But maybe the factory CZ one will work.

Thank of all you guys for your help and patience! Maybe this post will be of help to some other people as well.

[timmy75]

Don't forget to chamber / gauge test your ammo as well. Lately, many EU high brand names giving us their garbage to shoot with. Good luck.

[dabljues]

Don't forget to chamber / gauge test your ammo as well. Lately, many EU high brand names giving us their garbage to shoot with. Good luck.

I don't think ammo is the problem here. I mean I know it could be, but then my buddies are shooting their SP-01 Shadows and Shadow 2s no problem with the same ammo I'm using.

I've got an update. Today, 3 hours on the range. Most of that time with the TS2, again. So:

* still, 13lbs recoil spring works each time
* 11lbs recoil spring (this time, factory, from CZ) - has FTFs

I don't know, I was so silly not to notice one simple fact - 95% of those FTFs happen on the last round from the mag. And just to be clear - it even happens when I lock the slide back and release it with my hand (and in this case it's sometimes not even a FTF - sometimes the slide just like catches onto the round, not actually moving it forward, or just barely). I've done it many times today. It happens much less when I do it by pushing the slide lock. When I noticed it today - I started checking it out. Loading like 5 rounds into the mag (I do bullseye shooting, so I don't normally load a full mag anyway). Pew, pew, pew, pew - and then a FTF. Checked it many times. On some occasions the round got chambered, but still. Very very often, on the last round, a FTF happened.

So my next guess is - magazines. But then - I've got 3 mags in the TS2 box. And what - each of them would be "bad"? It's not a problem for me to go for a new followers, new springs, hell even new mags. But before I spend another buttload of money on this gun, I wanted to ask you guys. I mean the thing clearly shouts "mag issues". But is that possible?

One more thing about the mags:

This is the mag presented as a mag for CZ TS on CZ website, and that's what I had in my case: (link)



However, they mention one other mag, for TS2: (link)



I've seen people get the first mag in their base CZ TS2 unboxing videos (CZ USA - blue, CZ - silver). But on Orange and Racing Green, I saw the mags from the 2nd image (with different colors, obviously). Now I think that this may just be cosmetical, but could it be something there?

The one other idea that I have is - extractor. But not the dirty extractor (I clean it everytime now), but maybe a spring? I don't know. Should I replace it (as I'm seeing now, the extractor pin will be a pain in the ass - to get it out)? And if so, should I definitely go for a stronger one maybe? Or maybe it could be the extractor itself? I don't know, maybe it's bent.

Among that I will definitely polish the feed ramp, do a deep cleaning on the breech face.

But what do you guys think now? Mags? Extractor? Or maybe both?

P.S - I know I have a working gun when I use a 13lbs spring. And that's fine. After I done my testing today, I switched to the 13lbs spring to do some uninterrupted shooting. But I feel like the recoil spring isn't the problem at all. The heaver spring just pushes the round into the chamber by brute force, it has nothing to do with the gun cycling, loads - because, as I explained, the FTFs can happen when chambering a round from a locked back slide (they don't with the 13lbs spring). And as of today I got convinced that heavier rounds having less powder have much lower kick and the gun is so much pleasant to shoot (compared a full box of 147gr vs 124gr today), so the lighter recoil spring would be sanctioned here. Additionally, I'm thinking of reloading myself (finally)