Cz p10F fires in a holster

[gwes351]

So, I've read the prior thread on P-10C gen 1 vs gen 2.  is there anything other than what's described in that prior thread?

[Claymore504]

yeah this is starting to make me wonder about the OP. Been an LEO for 30 years and never heard of a handgun going off in a duty holster? As someone emntioned above, thier are still reports about this with the P320.

Reading comprehension = he's specifically talking about a firing pin block failing to function.  Sig P320's issue was not with the firing pin block, it was due to the trigger moving during impact which deactivated the firing pin block.  CZ P10's firing pin block is also an oddball and novel design instead of the tried and true plunger version everyone else is using and has been since at least the early 1980s (have vintage Berettas using a similar design w/ early 1980s production dates)...

Thanks for the reading comprehension lesson. You are talking about the drop safe issue that Sig "solved" with the voluntary recall. I however, am talking about the rather common current reports of P320 NDs in holsters (not being dropped or impacted). I really have no skin in this issue anyways. I am not defending the P10 and saying it is a perfect design and I moved away from the P320 years ago. If this guy is telling the truth, hopefully it all works out and the issue comes to light.

[RSR]

Sig P320 is back in the news -- this time WaPo: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/popular-handgun-fires-without-anyone-pulling-the-trigger-victims-say/ar-AA19ImQH

Popular handgun fires without anyone pulling the trigger, victims say
Story by Champe Barton, Tom Jackman • 10h ago

Balance at link above, no paywall.

Also noticed that the Taurus/Canik-priced and relatively new Sig P10M lacks the firing pin block...  Unsure what to think re: both that price-point and the lack of that safety feature (regardless of any its alleged [mis]function issues)... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCPCsQrtG2A
Exact timestamp for slide internal here: https://youtu.be/jCPCsQrtG2A?t=92

CZ-UB's website shows trigger pull of 52N, which should equate to nearly 12 lbs: https://www.czub.cz/en/firearms-and-products-product/cz-p-10-m

But US reviews I've seen show it a fair bit less (at ~1/2 to 3/4 the CZ-UB site's advertised weight), at 6-9 lbs...

https://shoot-on.com/field-test-czs-p-10-m-micro-compact-9mm/

The trigger pull on the test sample was a little heavy, averaging around 6.1 pounds (using my Timney Trigger tension scale).

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/review-cz-p-10-m/

The trigger is the reset type and breaks at 7 lbs. If you can “run the reset” (which I did to shoot the groups) it breaks more crisply at 6 lbs.
[...]
Trigger pull: 7 lbs.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/cz-p-10-m-striker-fired-9mm-compact-review/467176

This is the other of the two disadvantages I mentioned earlier. After a good quarter-inch of stiff take-up, the trigger hits a wall. Increased pressure is required to make the pistol fire. So far so good. However, it takes eight pounds, 12 ounces of pressure, according to my Lyman trigger scale.
[...]
Trigger: 8.75-lb. pull (as tested)

Except for that firing pin safety and a little heavier trigger, it appears to be the normal P10 mechanism best as I can tell.  Anyone disagree?

And I'm uncertain if a heavier trigger would have solved the OP's issue here.  Thoughts?

[M1A4ME]

OP has not visited us in over 2&1/2 weeks.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Op proved himself to be the troll that he is. No one yet has shown an actual defect in these guns.

[RSR]

Op proved himself to be the troll that he is. No one yet has shown an actual defect in these guns.

Are you saying the firing pin block potentially being installed incorrectly or not functioning as alleged isn't defective?

Do you believe it's kosher that it's absent on the P10M?

To be clear, I still don't believe him to be a troll...  I too have had raised issues with a variety of products on specialty forums.  In fact, I think that's what first led me here, and this remains one of just a couple forums I'm still active on of 10x that I've joined over the past ~two decades.

Don't believe me -- see my first post regarding a Vz58 aftermarket product issue here: https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=42723.msg386499#msg386499

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

What has the P10M got to do with this? You seem bent on proving this guys issue with no real evidence other than what he claims and no other REAL evidence other than alot of speculation from a couple youtubers. I can't find a single incident where someone claims a P-series gun "went off" or injured anyone other than this guy and these guns have been out for about 7 years now.
What has a potential defect in an aftermarket part for a VZ58 rifle got to do with this? Yeah I understand there are defective products out there and I've seen and experienced many but that does not prove there's a defect in play here. I had one of the first P-07's years ago that CZ replaced due to the issues with those.
Yeah he's a troll plain and simple. He has not interacted with the discussion on his issue and what info he has provided in his THREE posts was to add more to his "resume" with each one so as to do what add to his credibility? I'm a cop with all this experience so you must believe me? Reminds me of the congresswoman who claimed during the Kavanaugh confirmation that all women must be believed.

[AZ_CZ]

I’ll pay attention to this issue when an independent testing lab has some proof. Not interested in backyard bubba YouTube testing who are making money with their channel. Not interested in failure claims when the person making them will face disciplinary action or other penalties for discharge of their duty firearm. Not even very trusting of Department claims. Too much Union and office politics involved in this type of issue not to mention money.

CZ has demonstrated to me a willingness to look at and address safety issues in past models. If this issue is ever substantiated I’m Sure they’ll do something appropriate.

[Lostinthewoods]

I own a second gen P10C with the ambi mag release and the anti-rotation striker.  I have several thoudand rounds through it without issue and have carried it on many occasions.  It is not completely stock and has a Primay Machine barrel and a CGW tool steel striker.  Everything else is original. The trigger has broken in nicely and has a smooth, crisp 4.25lb pull when meaured near the bottom of the trigger.  This post and several other videos on YouTube have put a little doubt the safety of this pistol in my mind.  Since I would rather know for myself than trust the anonymous internet colective, I wanted to see what is going on inside the assembled pistol.   

I bought a spare back plate, and with some trial and error, I dremeled it so that I can see into the assembled pistol to better understand the firing pin safety function.  I had seen it posted elsewhere that there is something other than the spring keeping the firing pin safery from rotating away from the firing pin. I can now say, having seen with my own eyes, that this is not the case.  The only thing keeping the firing pin safety in place is indeed the spring.  With a bent paper clip, I can easily move the safey with very little pressure.  I can also say that the sear engagement is very robust.  Using an eyeglass screwdriver, I was unable to get the sear to releaae the firing pin by exerting pressure on the trigger bar or the firing pin. 

After that, I disassembled the slide and removed the firing pin safety and reassembled the pistol with the modified "inspection back plate".  With the firing pin cocked I hit the slide and frame repeatedly with a rubber hammer from many angles in an effort to get the sear to release the firing pin.  I was unsuccessful in getting it to release after dozens of attempts.

I am confident in MY pistol.  It does not have the factory firing pin installed.  I will retest with the factory firing pin when I have time.   This is obviously a sample of one and not necessarily representative of every P-10C out there.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

[RSR]

What has the P10M got to do with this? You seem bent on proving this guys issue with no real evidence other than what he claims and no other REAL evidence other than alot of speculation from a couple youtubers. I can't find a single incident where someone claims a P-series gun "went off" or injured anyone other than this guy and these guns have been out for about 7 years now.
What has a potential defect in an aftermarket part for a VZ58 rifle got to do with this? Yeah I understand there are defective products out there and I've seen and experienced many but that does not prove there's a defect in play here. I had one of the first P-07's years ago that CZ replaced due to the issues with those.
Yeah he's a troll plain and simple. He has not interacted with the discussion on his issue and what info he has provided in his THREE posts was to add more to his "resume" with each one so as to do what add to his credibility? I'm a cop with all this experience so you must believe me? Reminds me of the congresswoman who claimed during the Kavanaugh confirmation that all women must be believed.

The question w/ the P10M is the lack of a firing pin safety -- the P10's novel firing pin block/safety's function or lack thereof being a point of internet controversy.

Additionally, I'm also curious as to what's adding add'l trigger pull weight to the P10M -- just the striker spring, or some other change to the gun?  If the firing pin block's failure was the or a partial culprit, then a higher powered striker spring at half cock could make the ignition of a chambered round even more likely.

My point re: the Vz58 is that behavior your ascribe to malice, I see as normal conduct looking to identify problem(s) and solution(s).

When one is repeatedly attacked and demeaned as, among other things "a mall cop", then one tends to respond to rebut such baseless allegations -- especially folks who don't spend much time on the interwebs and fail to realize that doing so is only feeding the trolls and encouraging add'l such misbehavior.  As I see it, the OP provided minimum relevant info to seek resolution to his problem, and provided more ancillary in good faith in response to attacks/criticisms, much of which were irrelevant to his issue.

YMMV, but I think you're way out in left field on this one. 

[RSR]

I’ll pay attention to this issue when an independent testing lab has some proof. Not interested in backyard bubba YouTube testing who are making money with their channel. Not interested in failure claims when the person making them will face disciplinary action or other penalties for discharge of their duty firearm. Not even very trusting of Department claims. Too much Union and office politics involved in this type of issue not to mention money.

CZ has demonstrated to me a willingness to look at and address safety issues in past models. If this issue is ever substantiated I’m Sure they’ll do something appropriate.

Yes, there's absolutely a potential conflict-of-interest here on the part of the OP.  But he raises issues that have been raised elsewhere and ones that are of legitimate concern to anyone who owns or is considering owning this make of CZ handgun. 

But CZ also has huge conflicts-of-interest when it comes to claiming that their products are completely safe and functional as manufactured, which is why I advocated for an independent third party SME to inspect the weapon in question.

As the WaPo articles illustrates, replicating issues that aren't egregious but instead matters of tolerance, or manufacturing variances, or assembly failure (factory or after) are often extremely difficult and provide manufacturers with plausible deniability, even if such is to the detriment of consumers/their customers.

And also remember that w/ Colt on board (if not in the captain's chair) plus sky-high debt levels w/ their merger and acquisition business strategies, that this is no longer the CZ of old.  It may be better or it may be worse in any or all respects, but it's not the same.

[RSR]

I own a second gen P10C with the ambi mag release and the anti-rotation striker.  I have several thoudand rounds through it without issue and have carried it on many occasions.  It is not completely stock and has a Primay Machine barrel and a CGW tool steel striker.  Everything else is original. The trigger has broken in nicely and has a smooth, crisp 4.25lb pull when meaured near the bottom of the trigger.  This post and several other videos on YouTube have put a little doubt the safety of this pistol in my mind.  Since I would rather know for myself than trust the anonymous internet colective, I wanted to see what is going on inside the assembled pistol.   

I bought a spare back plate, and with some trial and error, I dremeled it so that I can see into the assembled pistol to better understand the firing pin safety function.  I had seen it posted elsewhere that there is something other than the spring keeping the firing pin safery from rotating away from the firing pin. I can now say, having seen with my own eyes, that this is not the case.  The only thing keeping the firing pin safety in place is indeed the spring.  With a bent paper clip, I can easily move the safey with very little pressure.  I can also say that the sear engagement is very robust.  Using an eyeglass screwdriver, I was unable to get the sear to releaae the firing pin by exerting pressure on the trigger bar or the firing pin. 

After that, I disassembled the slide and removed the firing pin safety and reassembled the pistol with the modified "inspection back plate".  With the firing pin cocked I hit the slide and frame repeatedly with a rubber hammer from many angles in an effort to get the sear to release the firing pin.  I was unsuccessful in getting it to release after dozens of attempts.

I am confident in MY pistol.  It does not have the factory firing pin installed.  I will retest with the factory firing pin when I have time.   This is obviously a sample of one and not necessarily representative of every P-10C out there.

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

Thank you for this thoughtful reply.  Let us know your function w/ the factory firing pin.

As mentioned earlier re: implications for the P10M w/o a firing pin block/safety:

Additionally, I'm also curious as to what's adding add'l trigger pull weight to the P10M -- just the striker spring, or some other change to the gun?  If the firing pin block's failure was the or a partial culprit, then a higher powered striker spring at half cock could make the ignition of a chambered round even more likely.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

  .All I can do is laugh at this point. This troll has got himself a FOUR page smorgasbord.

[M1A4ME]

Threads like this solve nothing and divide the forum members through arguments with words we'd normally not use in our posts discussing things we can solve.

[Wobbly]

Threads like this solve nothing and divide the forum members through arguments with words we'd normally not use in our posts discussing things we can solve.

I thoroughly agree. A lot of high blood pressure generated by someone from the SIG or Glock marketing department who is currently sitting back and laughing his/her rear end off about the concern generated over a totally unsubstantiated claim and undocumented event.

And now that you've pumped this up and fed this "information" to the masses, it will survive on the internet for 10 or more years. Something akin to reporters, who still to this day are asserting that the letters in "AR-15" stand for "assault rifle". Which, as everyone knows (because the lie has been repeated so often) is a "military weapon" fed by "clips".

God help us.