I bought yet another VZ.58 today. Somebody stop me!

[jwc007]

Per the BATF's latest sig brace letter, "intent" is what matters -- if you ultimately intend for it to be an SBR, you'd be even deeper in the legal gray if you ultimately want the weapon to become an sbr...

More recent events of some idiot pointing that out to the BATFE have seriously complicated that option and the BATFE will probably arbitrarily move to close that legal loop hole.

[CitizenPete]

Well lucky for us this forum thread is not about Sig Braces or any of that clamor designed to circumvent the rules and oppression of a hypocritical and tyrannical State.  (My Brothas! )

This thread is intended to be all about one fool's (that fool would be me  ) trials and tribulations on the path to building his first Samopal Vzor 58 Carbine SBR, and thus sharing this adventure in order for others to potentially contribute to the effort and or learn from my mistakes, and/or triumphs.

So in regards to the brace, lets just say we are beyond that in this particular thread.  However, there are at least 5 other threads on this site dedicated to the screams and moans of the ATF as related t0 the Sig Brace complete with circular arguments on if you hold it this way or that way its legal but if on a Thursday if it touches your forearm, an an ATF agent is having an espresso in a nearby tree,  bla bla bla.  So please take the the talk of the brace to that space.

I would bet many of the folks who are buying VZ2008s have not gone through an SBR process or fought with 922R compliance, so perhaps the constructive comments in this thread will be not only informative and helpful, but also inspiring to the vz58 community at large.

Walk away from the brace, and into the light, girls. 

[jwc007]

Agreed!  Back on topic! 

[RSR]

Sorry didn't realize the time stamp when I was scrolling down that page of the thread... And wasn't intending to divert the discussion, just saw some advice that was questionable in the current situation and was worth clarifying (and which I do not agree with and find ridiculous but also want to ensure I and others don't run afoul of the law since anything firearms related, we're legally obligated to subscribe to the ATF's game...). 

[CitizenPete]

Update (sigh...) 

The CSA VZ.59 762 SBR build is off to a dead stop.  Both the ATF Form 1 Manufacturers Stamp and Form 4 NFA Stamp are in hand, but as they say comrades: "We have mile to go before we sleep".

Since a VZ Pistol (any imported pistol) can come into the county without any 922R considerations, therefore with all foreign made parts on it, as soon as you get your stamp making it a rifle (which of course does have to be 922R compliant) you have to strip the pistol to the bone.   

I have been busy acquiring and collecting 922R compliance parts and in the process have had some interesting exchanges with manufacturers including Czechpoint regarding opinions of what parts from the ATF 20 identified parts are legitimate or not. 

To give an example on how botched up this is:

Czechpoint does not consider the striker rod as an identified part.  (which would be a "hammer")
I believe OOW called it a LINEAR HAMMER in their parts list and included it as one of the 10 allowable foreign parts.
Bonesteel ObiWon evidently does not count the striker as a hammer either -- he did not list it in his post here: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=40349.msg225637#msg225637

Being a gun collector and avid shooter I like my guns and ammo, and being suspect of anything our self-serving Bank owned tyrannical government is capable of, I don't offer up any excuses to receive fines, loss of my property and rights, or being thrown into a cage. SO... I always take the high road when it comes to compliance and firearm laws.  Being anal about covering my azz (see what I did there), I have even got signed letters from my Sheriff for Dangerous Ordnance for high cap drums and belt-fed weapons that I pay to file each year -- not that any of it is illegal to own or use to begin with.

I could go on with other examples but here is where I am at:

ATF lists 20 parts covered under 922R - you are allowed to have 10 OR LESS foreign parts on your imported firearm.  A good source for YOUR rifles MIGHT BE 922R.com (Note: they also believe in Linear Hammers)

Here is the list ATF parts for 922R compliance for ALL RIFLES imported in the US as follows (X next to VZ.58 if applicable and @ next to items I must or wish to potentially keep as imported parts):

Source TAPCO
27 C.F.R. 478.39 lists 20 parts:
@X(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
@X(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions DID NOT X THIS BECAUSE IT IS THIS OR MUZZLE BREAK
(4) Mounting blocks (grunions)
@X(5) Muzzle attachments
@X(6) Bolts
@X(7) Bolt carriers
( 8 ) Operating rods
X(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
X(11) Triggers
X(12) Hammers
X(13) Sears
X(14) Disconnectors
@X(15) Butt stocks
X(16) Pistol grips
@X(17) Forearms, hand guards
@X(18) Magazine bodies
X(19) Mag Followers
X(20) Mag Floorplates

16 possible X foreign parts (including Linear Hammer)
8 must have / want to have @ foreign parts (so far) with room for 2 more

Next I will post some of the parts ordered already, and some thoughts on trade-offs that I could use some input on. 

[CitizenPete]

Before I go back into the 922R BS, I wanted to share the trials and tribulations of stock selection.  Originally I decided to go with an ACE folder piece and ???TBD??? which required the Stormwerks adapter piece on the back of the receiver. Because I am operating an ACOG off a side rail mount I wanted to so straight rather than factory angled.

But I don't like what I'm seeing so far with the Stormwerks adapter.  Does this look straight to you? Does it look like it is aligned up with the receiver?







Not feeling it right now.

[Victor Zulu 58]

Sure you don't have it mounted backwards?

[CitizenPete]

Sure you don't have it mounted backwards?

   It would be pretty hard, even for me, to do that.   The milled piece is flat on one side with a screw recess on the other.   

Q: How about upside-down.  (beat you to it)

if spun upside down on the screw then the angle would be increased not made straight.  The back is straight vertical installed in this position, the angle of the top and bottom of the piece is what appears off.  as if it where a parallelogram.

[CitizenPete]

SBR Rifle receiver has been engraved (at OOW) and I finished the Houge pistol grip hack job for a US made (922R compliant) grip. 

Also assembling a bunch of 1 foreign part magazines, to eliminate 2 more parts for 922R.  Found US made metal bottom plates and using the Czechpoint US polymer followers.

[Tok36]

Very informative thread. I have yet to delve into the VZ-58 much. This has turned out to be a good place to start.

Thank you for the in depth coverage, interesting stuff.

[CitizenPete]

grips:

Houge over molded (USA)
Ronin (USA)
CSA (Czech)
FAB Defense (Israel)
OOW Black Wood (?)

[CitizenPete]

Houge grip.  Almost feeling it, not sure. Miss the feel of the CP or FAB and if I have wiggle room in my parts count the CP will go back on.

White stuff is MC3000 grease. Grip was dremeled out to fit base. Slightly off center 1/16" to the left to allow clearance for fire selector operation. Original screw hole on Houge was filled with JB metal epoxy (allowed 24hrs to cure) and new hole drilled behind original to line up properly at the correct angle.

Houge supplied screw surprisingly matched and does not appear to be too long, otherwise I may have to grind it off a bit. Bottom of grip (openings, holes) was filled with pure silicon and grip was mounted to allow silicon to form to gun and cure.  MC3000 was used as release agent on the gun to stop silicon from adhering and enable removal. Hopefully no interaction between the MC3000 and the silicon. Clean up in a couple days.

[CitizenPete]

The component stock adapter wasn't making be feel good, so it came off.  Jamie Dimon loaned me some digital debt, and a Galil hinge was procured.  It adds some weight, but this carbine is prob going to be front heavy anyway, so weight in the rear doesn't bother me.

Interesting how it attaches to the SA58.  First you screw a threaded sleeve into the receiver, then you attach the hinge and welded tube with a hex screw.  On final install I am going to red Locktite it in place.The reason for this prob is that they did not want to modify the IMI Galil hinge piece and they kept the original screw.

I found it strange that the tube is comspec rather than milspec. Unless the IDF uses commercial spec stocks, they prob did that to match up with the Fab Defense buttstocks (which are all commercial spec).  Conversely, I just received a very nice metal hinged tube from CNC Warrior for a VEPR and it was milspec. go figure.

Anyways this hinge and tube is a keeper.  I am definately feeling this. Locks up very tight. yet is easy to manipulate.   Total  length of Carbine from crown to back of tube is approx 28.5".  If you are good pals with Jamie Dimon, he will loan you what you need to get one. Highly recommended.

Here it is test fitted: 









Side engraving for BATF NFA compliance:

[Mikes250r]

Nice work. I wish there was more grip options out there for the VZ. I run Hogue tactical rubber grips on my M&P 15-22 and my M&P 15. Keep us posted on how it works out.

[CitizenPete]

SBR is up and running currently with Bonesteel FCG. 

Waiting on Zendl disconnector.
Waiting on detents on supressor muzzle omni-mount.

Range opens this Saturday     Hopefully it doesn't snow again. 

One daytime setup/configuration complete on the CSA SBR.  I can post 922R compliance information if anyone would benefit. 

It's a keeper: