P-01 Omega Safety Concern?

[s0nspark]

It is very apparent there is something else other than a spring issue.

Perhaps... but I think it wildly speculative to say it is a design issue. The design has been proven reliable in previous production runs so my money is still on an out of spec part, tolerance stacking or a combination of both.

I understand, though - having a problem with a gun is no fun. I?ve had a few over the years and in one case it totally turned me against a brand. CZ handled the one problem I had with a 75BD without drama... but that was just my experience.

[M1A4ME]

Well, for what it's worth:

1.  the spring that puts upward pressure on the ejector has between 10 and 11 coils in it and is 0.306" long (after being in the gun almost 2 years)

    That's the spring that should be keeping the ejector in position when it strikes the base of an empty moving rearward with the slide

2.  The notch in the left side decocker shaft that the ejector rests in is 0.062" wide (what a pain it was playing with that set of feeler gauges till I got the right combination of blades - then I added up the numbers plus used the calipers.)

3.  The ejector, where it fits up into that notch in the decocker shaft it 0.058" wide/thick.  If I pushed on either the ejector, or the left side decocker shaft I'd get a little bit of movement side to side, so it's not a snug bit on mine (I guess that's okay, just mentioning it.)

4.  The left side decocker lever shaft diameter, right next to the cut the notch the ejector fits into is 0.1970"

5.  The diameter of the left side decocker shaft in the notch for the ejector is 0.1740",   Looks like the notch is 0.0230" deep

And I'm curious what the coil spring/decocker spring would be doing to push the left side decocker out of the frame?  If the dimensions of the ejector, left side decocker shaft are good and the spring that puts upward pressure on ejector are good, how does the left side shaft move "out" of the frame.

And, if it happens with the safeties, too?  How has an out of spec. decocker spring have anything to do with that?  Since it's not in the frame when you're running the safeties?

I'm still curious.

Was there any depth difference between the ejector notches in the safety bar vs decocker bar ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, buddy, that didn't even occur to me.  Still got the stuff in the house, I'll field strip it again and get the left side safety lever out and measure it.  It'll be a few minutes.

Edited to add:

Left side safety shaft, round section next to the ejector notch - 0.200 inches in diameter
Left side safety shaft, diameter in the ejector notch - 0.176

Looks like the notch is about 0.024 inches deep.  Not much difference in the depth of the left side decocker shaft notch.

But, these are numbers from a 2016 produced P01 Omega.  If you want to know if it's different than a 2017 production P01 Omega, someone having the issue will need to measure there left side decocker shaft and compare.

[supergunner84]

It is very apparent there is something else other than a spring issue.

Perhaps... but I think it wildly speculative to say it is a design issue. The design has been proven reliable in previous production runs so my money is still on an out of spec part, tolerance stacking or a combination of both.

I understand, though - having a problem with a gun is no fun. I?ve had a few over the years and in one case it totally turned me against a brand. CZ handled the one problem I had with a 75BD without drama... but that was just my experience.

I have to respectfully disagree. This design has had 2 years of production, one of them having the issue. The omega has been around for a while, but the p01 Omega is different all together. They have a common sear and hammer, but past that most if the parts are related to the original Omega are not the same. One example is all the levers on the p07/09 are polymer with metal inserts to house the linkages.the p01 Omega is all metal and therefore a completely different part.

SG

[s0nspark]

It is very apparent there is something else other than a spring issue.

Perhaps... but I think it wildly speculative to say it is a design issue. The design has been proven reliable in previous production runs so my money is still on an out of spec part, tolerance stacking or a combination of both.

I understand, though - having a problem with a gun is no fun. I?ve had a few over the years and in one case it totally turned me against a brand. CZ handled the one problem I had with a 75BD without drama... but that was just my experience.

I have to respectfully disagree. This design has had 2 years of production, one of them having the issue. The omega has been around for a while, but the p01 Omega is different all together. They have a common sear and hammer, but past that most if the parts are related to the original Omega are not the same. One example is all the levers on the p07/09 are polymer with metal inserts to house the linkages.the p01 Omega is all metal and therefore a completely different part.

I'm not surprised you feel that way since most of this thread involves you saying much the same. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

And on that note, let's consider this and end to the speculation with regard to this issue. Further posts here should ONLY pertain to hard facts and specifically what CZ has done to address this issue. Anything else gets the boot.

[Chicago Dude]

It is very apparent there is something else other than a spring issue.

Perhaps... but I think it wildly speculative to say it is a design issue. The design has been proven reliable in previous production runs so my money is still on an out of spec part, tolerance stacking or a combination of both.

I understand, though - having a problem with a gun is no fun. I?ve had a few over the years and in one case it totally turned me against a brand. CZ handled the one problem I had with a 75BD without drama... but that was just my experience.

I have to respectfully disagree. This design has had 2 years of production, one of them having the issue. The omega has been around for a while, but the p01 Omega is different all together. They have a common sear and hammer, but past that most if the parts are related to the original Omega are not the same. One example is all the levers on the p07/09 are polymer with metal inserts to house the linkages.the p01 Omega is all metal and therefore a completely different part.

I'm not surprised you feel that way since most of this thread involves you saying much the same. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

And on that note, let's consider this and end to the speculation with regard to this issue. Further posts here should ONLY pertain to hard facts and specifically what CZ has done to address this issue. Anything else gets the boot.

What is this all about ? You sound like you are from USSR.
This guy gives you the facts and you call them "speculation" ? Are you employed by CZ ? If not, why don't you let people vent out about their problem ? I thought this is forum for everyone, and it's not like CNN.
This is not my business, and I really enjoined reading this tread (and all of your (personally yours) knowledgeable posts), but doing censorship like this is way over the top. 

[s0nspark]

It is very apparent there is something else other than a spring issue.

Perhaps... but I think it wildly speculative to say it is a design issue. The design has been proven reliable in previous production runs so my money is still on an out of spec part, tolerance stacking or a combination of both.

I understand, though - having a problem with a gun is no fun. I?ve had a few over the years and in one case it totally turned me against a brand. CZ handled the one problem I had with a 75BD without drama... but that was just my experience.

I have to respectfully disagree. This design has had 2 years of production, one of them having the issue. The omega has been around for a while, but the p01 Omega is different all together. They have a common sear and hammer, but past that most if the parts are related to the original Omega are not the same. One example is all the levers on the p07/09 are polymer with metal inserts to house the linkages.the p01 Omega is all metal and therefore a completely different part.

I'm not surprised you feel that way since most of this thread involves you saying much the same. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

And on that note, let's consider this and end to the speculation with regard to this issue. Further posts here should ONLY pertain to hard facts and specifically what CZ has done to address this issue. Anything else gets the boot.

What is this all about ? You sound like you are from USSR.
This guy gives you the facts and you call them "speculation" ? Are you employed by CZ ? If not, why don't you let people vent out about their problem ? I thought this is forum for everyone, and it's not like CNN.
This is not my business, and I really enjoined reading this tread (and all of your (personally yours) knowledgeable posts), but doing censorship like this is way over the top.

First off, my place of origin is irrelevant. 

Second, this is a private forum - not a public soapbox for anyone to come in and vent their feelings and throw around unsubstantiated judgements.

Facts as they stand:

1. there is some kind of issue with some Omega P-01s from the current production run
2. it may be related to an out of spec spring, per CZ-USA
3. other problems may also be in play
4. ultimately CZUB will need to review and fix this properly

To be clear, let me say again: this is not the place to vent. I do certainly understand the frustration of having a gun with issues - been there - and we can discuss the facts of said issues... but, key word: facts. We're kinda big on that here.

I tolerated some leeway in this thread hoping it would right itself before devolving into fear-mongering and vendor/product bashing. My warning stands as a reminder to get this conversation back on track. If that is too much to ask just let me know.

[Grendel]

Tag

[Lawikfors]

If it was just a minor spring issue then why are people having to send their guns in multiple times ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chicago Dude]

First off, my place of origin is irrelevant. 

Second, this is a private forum - not a public soapbox for anyone to come in and vent their feelings and throw around unsubstantiated judgements.

Facts as they stand:

1. there is some kind of issue with some Omega P-01s from the current production run
2. it may be related to an out of spec spring, per CZ-USA
3. other problems may also be in play
4. ultimately CZUB will need to review and fix this properly

To be clear, let me say again: this is not the place to vent. I do certainly understand the frustration of having a gun with issues - been there - and we can discuss the facts of said issues... but, key word: facts. We're kinda big on that here.

I tolerated some leeway in this thread hoping it would right itself before devolving into fear-mongering and vendor/product bashing. My warning stands as a reminder to get this conversation back on track. If that is too much to ask just let me know.

Fair enough !
When it comes to venting, maybe you should have a section for that ?
I am not sure what do you mean about "fear- mongering", but you can take example of myself (average Joe, who came here to learn and inform himself). I was on the way of purchasing P-01 Omega. After reading this tread - guess what ? Is that "fear-mongering" or (half @ss) educated decision, to opt out of buying potentially troubled weapon ? Instead I bought myself new 99041 (again - thanks to this forum), because if it wasn't up to the guys here, I would have no idea what is 99041.
Bashing vendor/product ? You bet. If I had new weapon that is giving me problems and your vendor(manufacturer) is acting like this, or is sending me that weapon back (after long wait) in same condition, or not fixed, I would imagine - I would bash them too.
Finally - thanks for your effort in explaining where are you coming from (not your origin, because I could care less - that was just my smart @ss remark), and above all thanks for your knowledgeable posts, which I try to follow (with big pleasure) and learn as much as I can.

[s0nspark]

First off, my place of origin is irrelevant. 

Second, this is a private forum - not a public soapbox for anyone to come in and vent their feelings and throw around unsubstantiated judgements.

Facts as they stand:

1. there is some kind of issue with some Omega P-01s from the current production run
2. it may be related to an out of spec spring, per CZ-USA
3. other problems may also be in play
4. ultimately CZUB will need to review and fix this properly

To be clear, let me say again: this is not the place to vent. I do certainly understand the frustration of having a gun with issues - been there - and we can discuss the facts of said issues... but, key word: facts. We're kinda big on that here.

I tolerated some leeway in this thread hoping it would right itself before devolving into fear-mongering and vendor/product bashing. My warning stands as a reminder to get this conversation back on track. If that is too much to ask just let me know.

Fair enough !
When it comes to venting, maybe you should have a section for that ?
I am not sure what do you mean about "fear- mongering", but you can take example of myself (average Joe, who came here to learn and inform himself). I was on the way of purchasing P-01 Omega. After reading this tread - guess what ? Is that "fear-mongering" or (half @ss) educated decision, to opt out of buying potentially troubled weapon ? Instead I bought myself new 99041 (again - thanks to this forum), because if it wasn't up to the guys here, I would have no idea what is 99041.
Bashing vendor/product ? You bet. If I had new weapon that is giving me problems and your vendor(manufacturer) is acting like this, or is sending me that weapon back (after long wait) in same condition, or not fixed, I would imagine - I would bash them too.
Finally - thanks for your effort in explaining where are you coming from (not your origin, because I could care less - that was just my smart @ss remark), and above all thanks for your knowledgeable posts, which I try to follow (with big pleasure) and learn as much as I can.

As I said... I do totally understand the emotions in play. However, history has shown that it benefits this community most if we keep things factual and try, as much as possible, to leave the negative emotions out of it.

Vendor bashing without any way of knowing or understanding all that is going on rarely has any positive benefit except to make the poster feel a tiny bit better. CZ has a really good track record for taking care of their customers. Is it always a fast and easy process? No. Some patience (and persistence) is sometimes needed...

BTW you weren't the only one about to order an Omega P-01... there was a reason I followed this thread to begin with ;-) I'll track this issue as best I can and wait until it is resolved to purchase - I really like the fact that the Omega system is much simpler to work on so I will hold out for it.

[rkubatk21]

It still really bothers me what on my first gun they could not fix for them to replace it, I mean really what piece was so damaged or broken that a whole new gun was needed to to be sent to me. The gun ran fine other then the decocker issue. Did they not know how to fix it correctly?

You are looking at this totally wrong. They didn't replace yours because they couldn't fix it - they did so because it seemed most expedient.

I see where you are coming from however not checking the new replacement is frustrating and I don?t see how anyone could find that okay. I called CZ today since they didn?t respond to my emails and spoke with Zach who said there should be no issue with the P07 spring in there and if there was to contact them again. I do not want to give up on the gun and will post anymore updates during the thousands of rounds I plan to put through it. I haven?t noticed any metal shavings or markings yet due to the spring rubbing on the trigger bar. Regarding this issue I stand with SG on this one.

[s0nspark]

If it was just a minor spring issue then why are people having to send their guns in multiple times ?

Well - this is entirely a hunch on my part, but I'd say guns returned to CZ-USA for warranty work either get worked on there or replaced outright - they don't make a trip overseas to CZUB (you know, where the product engineering team is) while the customer is waiting. Does your mechanic send your car back to Hyundai or whoever when it comes in making a strange noise? No. They try the most likely fix. If that doesn't fix it they try again. Is it fun to be the customer with a new problem? No, of course not.

In other words, I would say CZUB/CZ-USA are still trying to get a handle on the problem.

[s0nspark]

I see where you are coming from however not checking the new replacement is frustrating and I don?t see how anyone could find that okay.

I get the frustration... There was a time when I expected to be able to have confidence in a gun out of the box - that ship has sailed. Things can happen regardless of brand or model.

The only way to truly have confidence is to prove the gun by shooting it.  If you have further issues, send it back.  CZ will take care of you.

[M1A4ME]

If you want a "new" P01, as in new in the box and you were going to run the decocker anyway then the standard P01 is set up that way already - with no issues.

If you want the Omega version then be on the lookout for one with 16 stamped into the slide in front of the ejection port, not 17.  There's probably still some out there.  I still sometimes see new DUTY model P07's and they haven't made them for what?  5 years or so, maybe 6 years.

If you've already got a "17" P01 Omega, sorry, I hope they get it figured out and fixed soon.

[del4c]

I think that I `am going to notify CZub.cz in Czech directly and copy some of these posts and see if I get any feedback. We`re sure not getting anywhere after several months, and czusa is not very helpful or transparent regarding our issue.