Author Topic: Recoil Buffers and Competition  (Read 29418 times)

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Offline dbarn

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Recoil Buffers and Competition
« on: October 03, 2018, 01:44:52 PM »
Really curious as to how many gamers use buffers in their CZs and what benefit do you gain?

It seems that any factory pistols that can be considered as competition pistols are now coming from CZ with buffers installed to include Shadow 2 and Shadow SP-01 Orange.

My own experience has been there seems to be less muzzle flip in the Shadow Orange with the buffer installed on a metal guide rod vs a regular Shadow Polymer Guide Rod (no buffer).

Not much difference either way when static shooting, but appears to make a difference with rapid fire, double taps, and moving or dynamic shooting. Thoughts?

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 08:24:39 AM »
My own experience has been there seems to be less muzzle flip in the Shadow Orange with the buffer installed on a metal guide rod vs a regular Shadow Polymer Guide Rod (no buffer).

The difference there isn't just buffer vs no buffer.  It's also metal vs polymer guide rod, and simply having the extra weight of the metal guide rod out front affects how the muzzle moves.  If you want to test buffer vs no buffer, you'd have to use a metal guide rod in both cases.

I'd also suggest that how muzzle flip seems is to some degree a function of how recoil feels, so simply doing something that makes recoil feel softer can create the impression muzzle flip is less, and maybe it is, but maybe it isn't.  You'd have to take video with a camera from the side to determine how much difference, if any, there is in muzzle flip. 

THEN there's the REAL question:

Does it matter?

The only importance of any of this is whether or not it functions to decrease split times. There's this intuitive impression that softer felt recoil must equal faster splits, or that less muzzle flip equals faster splits, and we spend a ton of time online talking about felt recoil. BUT the only thing that equals faster splits IS faster splits.  ;) And the only thing you can measure that with is a shot timer. 

Whether or not the recoil buffer reduces muzzle flip is irrelevant.  Whether or not it reduces split times is what's important.

And generally speaking, if a modest decrease in recoil improves your split times, you have a weakness in grip and/or stance (most shooters can improve dramatically in this regard).  If you employ good grip and stance, modest differences in recoil should have no observable impact on split times.


Offline tdogg

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2018, 01:27:44 AM »
My TSO is the first CZ I've owned that came with buffers.   I use them.   I think it dampens the impulse felt and makes it softer feeling.   Couldn't comment on splits or muzzle flip.  I use the thick version and they seems to last quite well in my 40 major rig.

Cheers,
Toby

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Offline Skookum

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2018, 02:08:20 PM »
What about reliability?  I've read that recoil buffers reduce pistol reliability by increasing failures to eject and feed.
Skookum
Browning Challenger III, .22 Long Rifle, Glossy Blue
CZ 83, 9 Browning Court, Satin Nickel
CZ 75 Compact, 9 Luger, Dual Tone — Satin Nickel/Matte Blue
CZ 82, 9 Makarov, Czechoslovak People's Army Black
CZ 83, 7.65 Browning, Glossy Blue
Beretta 3032 Tomcat, .32 Auto, Inox

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2018, 04:14:27 PM »
What about reliability?  I've read that recoil buffers reduce pistol reliability by increasing failures to eject and feed.

I have read the same thing with aftermarket recoil buffers, which is why I've never bought one, but I haven't heard anything of the sort from CZ owners with the pistols that have them designed for them, so I'm curious to hear, as well.

Offline tdogg

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2018, 11:22:02 PM »
I've put over 3k through my TSO and have only replaced the buffer once.  The thin buffer looked like it was going to come apart and was pretty chewed up.    When I replaced it,  I put in the thicker CZ buffer.   It seems to be holding up well.

Interesting enough,  I think the thicker buffer has reduced the ejection distance a little too.  I haven't done any experiments to prove it but it seems like it at the range.  I've been looking for a way to reduce the ejection distance and I'll call this a feature on my gun. :)

Cheers,
Toby

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« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 02:10:29 PM by tdogg »
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Offline Matt101

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2018, 05:18:58 AM »
3k is like a months worth of practice for some.

The buffer is the first thing I take out usually. On Czechmates, TSO?s & S2?s.

I?ve only just started using a thin one in the Czechmate. I know someone who?s using one and I?ve got enough to replace regularly.


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Offline dbarn

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 02:18:33 PM »
Haven't added to this thread lately and appreciate the responses.

For those who have had the buffer sets included with your pistols, are you using the thick or thin version?

Offline Brhodes6

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2019, 07:25:11 AM »
I take mine out , have never had an issue .

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Offline 2morechains

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2019, 11:35:16 AM »
I left mine in, haven?t had any issues. 

And this is coming from someone who never ran one in a 1911 or 2011. 

Next range sessions I?m going to shoot some timed drills with and without. 

Offline Old Rocket

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2019, 08:26:51 AM »
I take mine out, if you shoot enough it is something else to fail.
I have to replace my springs 15-20k once a year can't imagine having to replace a buffer 3+ times to the springs.
TS40 limited major.
9mm in a steel gun and i don't even concern myself with muzzle flip.
In a 45 1911 never needed them.
CZ 75b
CZ P09
SP 01
SP 01
TS 40
VZ2008

Offline dbarn

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 08:15:55 AM »
Have been doing some pretty extensive testing with using the recoil buffers on rapid fire using the recoil buffer on a metal rod, and a Delrin Shadow type plastic guide rod all with a 13 lb hammer spring with 11 lb recoil spring.

One of my drills is to stand at 10 yards firing 5 rounds as fast as I can onto a sheet of notebook paper. Usually in 2.5 seconds or less. Of course the goal is to get all five on the paper.

If I do my part with stance, firm grip, front sight etc., the best results as far as recoil impulse, sight tracking, ejection and getting 4-5 rounds center on paper were achieved with the Delrin plastic rod.

Your results may vary, but I'm sold on this set up.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 07:44:46 AM by dbarn »

Offline deadsh0t

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 03:18:28 AM »
I used the standard buffer for about 30'000 rounds, then I decided to change it but it was still there, not about to break (you can notice it). It was using 10-11 Lb so it will last very long for sure. It reduces the slide travel so it can affect how the gun recoils (not how much), since the timing is different.

Some competitors suggest to always use it in training and always remove it in competitions so nothing can go wrong and your gun will last longer

When I remove it, double tap results change a lot (because I tuned it to a point where any detail will change the result)

Offline tdogg

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2019, 01:30:01 AM »
Just replaced another buffer in my TSO, at about 3k.  I don't think they last as long when shooting major in 40.

They are cheap enough and easy to inspect for damage when cleaning the pistol.  They definitely alter the felt recoil and ejection distance.

Cheers,
Toby

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Offline igolfat8

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Re: Recoil Buffers and Competition
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2019, 11:05:30 PM »
Cajun has a tutorial on their website that recommends removing the buffer from all pistols.