Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete

[Hammer Time]

I've been enjoying this series, Hrfunk. I purchased a Sub 2K Gen 2 last year and set it up to take Sig P226 mags (though it's probably going to get converted again to take CZ 75 mags, since that's the only pistol I want to shoot anymore!). And I have to say that my Sub 2K has been rock solid and eaten everything I've put through it without issue. Among the upgrades I did to it are the M*Carbo spring kit and flat trigger, polished stainless feed ramp, taller rear sight, muzzle brake, extended mag release , Magpul AFG-2 grip, etc. It's a really fun little gun to shoot, and a great practical solution for an easily packable 'truck gun.'

[Hrfunk]

I've been enjoying this series, Hrfunk. I purchased a Sub 2K Gen 2 last year and set it up to take Sig P226 mags (though it's probably going to get converted again to take CZ 75 mags, since that's the only pistol I want to shoot anymore!). And I have to say that my Sub 2K has been rock solid and eaten everything I've put through it without issue. Among the upgrades I did to it are the M*Carbo spring kit and flat trigger, polished stainless feed ramp, taller rear sight, muzzle brake, extended mag release , Magpul AFG-2 grip, etc. It's a really fun little gun to shoot, and a great practical solution for an easily packable 'truck gun.'

The more I use mine, the more I like it. It continues to be the best solution for the task I acquired it for.

Howard

[Ron M.]

Probably should have included photos before. The nice thing about the extended brace is it locks in the folded position unlike the short brace. It's long enough that it shoulders the same as the SBR stock.

[MuzzleBlastMD]

In summary, I tried different brands of ammo, but the Roni as it stood, was not working with the suppressor. It was OK without a can. Thanks to Solscud for his YouTube video to give me the idea, and LOS from AR15DotCom to suggest cutting what I cut.





You see the rub point on the dorsal barrel margin.



I took off the excess steel, but questions were raised if the barrel would still contact the concussion device.




It was not pretty, either.



I mounted it onto my Bench vise and I let the dremel have its way.  Because of the protruding end of the Concussion device I was just going to cut it first, then trim the edges.





I sanded and polished the near finished piece.





The daunting task of reassembly was intimidating.



Because the rail screws did not loosen I did not bother removing them.

I placed the detent spring of the rail release and pushed the parts together, and I hammered with a plastic mallet.





The rest was easy



I now have clearance for the barrel.

[RSR]

In summary, I tried different brands of ammo, but the Roni as it stood, was not working with the suppressor. It was OK without a can. Thanks to Solscud for his YouTube video to give me the idea, and LOS from AR15DotCom to suggest cutting what I cut.

Interesting, and thanks for sharing.  But for me, the cost plus the process just reinforces going w/ the sub2k, or other standalone rifle platform.  But Maryland does have some funky firearms laws--and uncertain how much that played into your decision making process. 

[RSR]

I've been enjoying this series, Hrfunk. I purchased a Sub 2K Gen 2 last year and set it up to take Sig P226 mags (though it's probably going to get converted again to take CZ 75 mags, since that's the only pistol I want to shoot anymore!). And I have to say that my Sub 2K has been rock solid and eaten everything I've put through it without issue. Among the upgrades I did to it are the M*Carbo spring kit and flat trigger, polished stainless feed ramp, taller rear sight, muzzle brake, extended mag release , Magpul AFG-2 grip, etc. It's a really fun little gun to shoot, and a great practical solution for an easily packable 'truck gun.'

Looks great.  The forend on V2 is narrower than I prefer, but personal preference.  I'd probably install a rail, or even an extra tall rail, and then mount the AFG to that rather than direct mount.

Overall, V2 is a more robust setup and saves over $100 in mods and considerable time vs V1 to get into a similar configuration. 

A couple suggestions, and don't recall if mentioned previously here: 
-I would recommend a dual light and laser w/ pressure pad over separate light and red dot if you're going to be regularly folding the gun.  Lasers are also much more functional over irons at night, especially when your weapon light doesn't illuminate your front sight post.  Also, there's a bit of an intimidation/hollywood effect if for instance you have a laser on a home intruder -- much more intimidating and prudent than Joe Biden's shotgun pump and shooting in the air...
-I did install a hogue grip sleeve on my gen 1 to mitigate some of the sharp edges on the 2 piece handle and improve grip.
-Muzzle brakes on 9mm are fairly ineffective due to minimal muzzle blast, especially out of 16" barrels.  Granted they're often priced similarly to 9mm flash hiders and often weigh less than linear comps and blast cans, but seem to have less desireable performance in a self-defense situation than all of the three aformentioned devices which mitigate flash and/or blast/noise to you the shooter if needing to utilize your weapon indoors...
As always, YMMV.

[MuzzleBlastMD]

In summary, I tried different brands of ammo, but the Roni as it stood, was not working with the suppressor. It was OK without a can. Thanks to Solscud for his YouTube video to give me the idea, and LOS from AR15DotCom to suggest cutting what I cut.

Interesting, and thanks for sharing.  But for me, the cost plus the process just reinforces going w/ the sub2k, or other standalone rifle platform.  But Maryland does have some funky firearms laws--and uncertain how much that played into your decision making process.

I had 4 Glock 19s and a Roni.  Otherwise the Sub 2K would have been a strong consideration....


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[RSR]

In summary, I tried different brands of ammo, but the Roni as it stood, was not working with the suppressor. It was OK without a can. Thanks to Solscud for his YouTube video to give me the idea, and LOS from AR15DotCom to suggest cutting what I cut.

Interesting, and thanks for sharing.  But for me, the cost plus the process just reinforces going w/ the sub2k, or other standalone rifle platform.  But Maryland does have some funky firearms laws--and uncertain how much that played into your decision making process.

I had 4 Glock 19s and a Roni.  Otherwise the Sub 2K would have been a strong consideration....


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Roger.  I just wasn't certain if MD is one of the states/countries w/ weird laws that allowed standard capacity semi-auto pistol mags (including greater than 10 rounds) in pistols but has limitations for 10 rounds or less in rifles...  Canada was like that but think they modified (originally law had no prohibition on using pistol mags in rifles, so rifles that used pistol mags were favored over the 5 [IIRC] round limit in rifles), and I think at least one the US states had similar laws. 

If those different standards applied similarly in MD, that add'l capacity in a 9mm pistol would make the Roni a no brainer. 

[Hammer Time]

Looks great.  The forend on V2 is narrower than I prefer, but personal preference.  I'd probably install a rail, or even an extra tall rail, and then mount the AFG to that rather than direct mount.

Overall, V2 is a more robust setup and saves over $100 in mods and considerable time vs V1 to get into a similar configuration. 

A couple suggestions, and don't recall if mentioned previously here: 
-I would recommend a dual light and laser w/ pressure pad over separate light and red dot if you're going to be regularly folding the gun.  Lasers are also much more functional over irons at night, especially when your weapon light doesn't illuminate your front sight post.  Also, there's a bit of an intimidation/hollywood effect if for instance you have a laser on a home intruder -- much more intimidating and prudent than Joe Biden's shotgun pump and shooting in the air...
-I did install a hogue grip sleeve on my gen 1 to mitigate some of the sharp edges on the 2 piece handle and improve grip.
-Muzzle brakes on 9mm are fairly ineffective due to minimal muzzle blast, especially out of 16" barrels.  Granted they're often priced similarly to 9mm flash hiders and often weigh less than linear comps and blast cans, but seem to have less desireable performance in a self-defense situation than all of the three aformentioned devices which mitigate flash and/or blast/noise to you the shooter if needing to utilize your weapon indoors...
As always, YMMV.

Thanks for your thoughts. The light and red dot combo on this is definitely in continual evolution. And because I bought this specifically for its "foldability" I don't use the red dot on it all that often and instead rely primarily on the iron sights. I've experiments with a 45? offset mount for the red dot as well, but it never really worked for me all that well, and it still interfered with the folding. A laser (or laser/light combo) at some point is tempting...

[MuzzleBlastMD]

In summary, I tried different brands of ammo, but the Roni as it stood, was not working with the suppressor. It was OK without a can. Thanks to Solscud for his YouTube video to give me the idea, and LOS from AR15DotCom to suggest cutting what I cut.

Interesting, and thanks for sharing.  But for me, the cost plus the process just reinforces going w/ the sub2k, or other standalone rifle platform.  But Maryland does have some funky firearms laws--and uncertain how much that played into your decision making process.

I had 4 Glock 19s and a Roni.  Otherwise the Sub 2K would have been a strong consideration....


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Roger.  I just wasn't certain if MD is one of the states/countries w/ weird laws that allowed standard capacity semi-auto pistol mags (including greater than 10 rounds) in pistols but has limitations for 10 rounds or less in rifles...  Canada was like that but think they modified (originally law had no prohibition on using pistol mags in rifles, so rifles that used pistol mags were favored over the 5 [IIRC] round limit in rifles), and I think at least one the US states had similar laws. 

If those different standards applied similarly in MD, that add'l capacity in a 9mm pistol would make the Roni a no brainer.

I?m in Virginia, a free state.

MD is my degree. I?m a diagnostic radiologist.


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[RSR]

With that larger aperture and taller rear iron sight, it's got you covered during full daylight situations.  I have an aftermarket steel w/ fiber optic insert front sight on my Gen1 that further improves.  The factory front sight was junk, but Gen1 and Gen2 front sight blocks are quite different. 
Would a red dot be faster than irons?  Absolutely.  Is it needed or necessary for most self defense situations if you have irons, white light, and laser?  No, not IMO.

And if your gun is intended for self defense, a laser is visible under pretty much under any light condition indoors.

Further on red dot -- for me, the compact storage and fast deployment was a major draw in appeal.  All red dot options that allow folding take several add'l seconds to minutes to setup when in initially unfolding/deploying the rifle.  But red dot does save fractional to perhaps a full second or two in shooting speed vs irons.  A tradeoff either way, and ultimately a question of priorities.

Or at least this is my current thinking. 

Also, forgot to mention, there are front handguard stabilization brackets that clamp to the rail and interface w/ the mlok slots for the Gen 2 guns to mitigate the rail wobble that changes your zero when optic is mounted.  Whether red dot or laser, might be worth considering that addition to your setup as well.

[RSR]

I?m in Virginia, a free state.

MD is my degree. I?m a diagnostic radiologist.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Whoops, sorry for the confusion. 

VA is a free state, for now...  Fortunately, your state elections are lower turnout due to being held in odd, nonfederal election years.

Presidential vote VA went from voting AGAINST Bill Clinton for President in both 1992 and 1996 to voting FOR Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Barack Obama in both 2008 and 2012.  GW Bush did win VA's vote in both 2000 and 2004.

Point being, w/ VA being increasingly dominated by elitist and liberal-leaning DC suburbs, erosion of VA's 2A rights is almost certain to occur in the near-future.

[Hrfunk]

With that larger aperture and taller rear iron sight, it's got you covered during full daylight situations.  I have an aftermarket steel w/ fiber optic insert front sight on my Gen1 that further improves.  The factory front sight was junk, but Gen1 and Gen2 front sight blocks are quite different. 
Would a red dot be faster than irons?  Absolutely.  Is it needed or necessary for most self defense situations if you have irons, white light, and laser?  No, not IMO.

And if your gun is intended for self defense, a laser is visible under pretty much under any light condition indoors.

Further on red dot -- for me, the compact storage and fast deployment was a major draw in appeal.  All red dot options that allow folding take several add'l seconds to minutes to setup when in initially unfolding/deploying the rifle.  But red dot does save fractional to perhaps a full second or two in shooting speed vs irons.  A tradeoff either way, and ultimately a question of priorities.

Or at least this is my current thinking. 

Also, forgot to mention, there are front handguard stabilization brackets that clamp to the rail and interface w/ the mlok slots for the Gen 2 guns to mitigate the rail wobble that changes your zero when optic is mounted.  Whether red dot or laser, might be worth considering that addition to your setup as well.

Thanks for the comment! I'm not a big fan of lasers, especially at distance. Tracking the dot is a little like watching a fly trying to get through a window screen. It bounces all over the place and makes accurate shooting somewhat iffy. At this point, I'm waiting very impatiently for the MCarbo optic mount. If it works the way I THINK its going to, then the optic should pretty much self-deploy as the S2K is unfolded. If that mount turns out to be a solid base for an optic, then I will almost certainly add a red-dot to my carbine. If not, then I'll stick with the iron sights until something better comes along.

Thanks again,
HRF

[MuzzleBlastMD]

I?m in Virginia, a free state.

MD is my degree. I?m a diagnostic radiologist.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Whoops, sorry for the confusion. 

VA is a free state, for now...  Fortunately, your state elections are lower turnout due to being held in odd, nonfederal election years.

Presidential vote VA went from voting AGAINST Bill Clinton for President in both 1992 and 1996 to voting FOR Hillary Clinton in 2016 and Barack Obama in both 2008 and 2012.  GW Bush did win VA's vote in both 2000 and 2004.

Point being, w/ VA being increasingly dominated by elitist and liberal-leaning DC suburbs, erosion of VA's 2A rights is almost certain to occur in the near-future.

Yes, unfortunately.

I may have to move to SC, NC or GA, if that happens.

The cluster of voting in NoVa is what is dictating the rest of the state.


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[Hammer Time]

...At this point, I'm waiting very impatiently for the MCarbo optic mount. If it works the way I THINK its going to, then the optic should pretty much self-deploy as the S2K is unfolded. If that mount turns out to be a solid base for an optic, then I will almost certainly add a red-dot to my carbine. If not, then I'll stick with the iron sights until something better comes along.

This. I've been hearing rumors of M*Carbo's optic mount for some time...I hope we see it soon.