Author Topic: picked up another Dtech VZ 58 edit: got some bonesteel handgaurds too  (Read 5228 times)

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Offline sboone

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A guy local that I've done horse trading with in the past hit me up last night.  He had a lightly used VZ 58 in the box, 12 mags, 1 pouch for $900.  1 CZ P01 UGSR and $350 dollars later Im takin the pile home.  He gave full disclosure on the rifle, theres something up with the ejector and top handgaurd is loose, all furniture was replaced with a color matched beaver barf set by him to get rid of the plastic.

Ejector has a ton of play in and slides out of the groove half way, theres a dimple in the reciever where it looks like it was half heartedly dimpled to stake it in.  He attempted to stake it but move material from the ejector itself.  I think im just gonna find a NOS and replace it.

Anything I need to be aware of or is it as simple as it looks, just stake material from the dimple?  I'm pretty mechanically inclined and have my other Dtech as a pattern to work off of that was staked properly.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2021, 08:43:30 PM by sboone »

Offline ObiWanBonJovi

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2020, 07:15:12 PM »
Pick up a nee ejector and stake, its that easy.  Ive done a bunch, and found a chisel to do a better staking job than a punch.  I use a 1/4 masonry chisel and kinda follow the angle of the dimple, one good whack locks that up tight.

Offline sboone

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2020, 09:43:34 PM »
Thanks, thats a nice little tip to know for sure.  I was really lookin at a 12" pistol to do a "lightweight" build with your handgaurds and a folding stock/brace.  More than likely this one will get sent up the road and replaced with that in due time.

Offline RSR

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2020, 11:35:19 PM »
A guy local that I've done horse trading with in the past hit me up last night.  He had a lightly used VZ 58 in the box, 12 mags, 1 pouch for $900.  1 CZ P01 UGSR and $350 dollars later Im takin the pile home.  He gave full disclosure on the rifle, theres something up with the ejector and top handgaurd is loose, all furniture was replaced with a color matched beaver barf set by him to get rid of the plastic.

Ejector has a ton of play in and slides out of the groove half way, theres a dimple in the reciever where it looks like it was half heartedly dimpled to stake it in.  He attempted to stake it but move material from the ejector itself.  I think im just gonna find a NOS and replace it.

Anything I need to be aware of or is it as simple as it looks, just stake material from the dimple?  I'm pretty mechanically inclined and have my other Dtech as a pattern to work off of that was staked properly.

Wow, 33% off and 50% off respectively.   You did VERY well.  Do look into 922r w/ those foreign handguards -- IIRC, Czechpoints black plastic handguards are US-made/922r components.

Offline sboone

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2020, 02:18:52 PM »
Pick up a nee ejector and stake, its that easy.  Ive done a bunch, and found a chisel to do a better staking job than a punch.  I use a 1/4 masonry chisel and kinda follow the angle of the dimple, one good whack locks that up tight.

Staking went well and simple as it looks, that chisel idea really did the trick.  Also went ahead and ordered a handgaurd set for my other Dtech instead of waiting for cash for a pistol.  I did the math and even with my vortex razor reflex on it, it'll still be lighter than rhe beaver handgard set.

Offline RSR

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2020, 06:35:27 PM »
Pick up a nee ejector and stake, its that easy.  Ive done a bunch, and found a chisel to do a better staking job than a punch.  I use a 1/4 masonry chisel and kinda follow the angle of the dimple, one good whack locks that up tight.

Staking went well and simple as it looks, that chisel idea really did the trick.  Also went ahead and ordered a handgaurd set for my other Dtech instead of waiting for cash for a pistol.  I did the math and even with my vortex razor reflex on it, it'll still be lighter than rhe beaver handgard set.

Talking about Obiwan/CNCW's new bonesteel handguards with the dual rail and mlock setup?

Offline sboone

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2020, 07:16:20 PM »
Pick up a nee ejector and stake, its that easy.  Ive done a bunch, and found a chisel to do a better staking job than a punch.  I use a 1/4 masonry chisel and kinda follow the angle of the dimple, one good whack locks that up tight.

Staking went well and simple as it looks, that chisel idea really did the trick.  Also went ahead and ordered a handgaurd set for my other Dtech instead of waiting for cash for a pistol.  I did the math and even with my vortex razor reflex on it, it'll still be lighter than rhe beaver handgard set.

Talking about Obiwan/CNCW's new bonesteel handguards with the dual rail and mlock setup?

If you mean these

https://www.bonesteelarms.com/VZ-58-SRS-Hand-Guard-Set-SRS-VZ-SET.htm

Then yes sir.  Been slobberin over em for over a year

Offline RSR

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2020, 07:24:09 PM »
Good deal.  Yes, they look to resolve my issue w/ his Gen 1s, which was they were oddly wide, and squat -- but haven't tried them.  However, I would still like to see the top rail edges extend out to the outer edge of the lower rail.  As is, stones, etc, can fall into the handguard via gaps between upper and lower.  Granted, it's less of an issue now with the mlock cutouts allowing stuff to more easily fall out than gen 1, but it should also allow the upper to be made a little more rigid...  As is though, not having it extend to inline probably does keep it from being impacted and damaged quite as much, and allow the upper to remain a little lighter in construction.

Regardless, what's been you impression with these?  Good to go?

Offline sboone

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2020, 07:26:52 PM »
Good deal.  Yes, they look to resolve my issue w/ his Gen 1s, which was they were oddly wide, and squat -- but haven't tried them.  However, I would still like to see the top rail edges extend out to the outer edge of the lower rail.  As is, stones, etc, can fall into the handguard via gaps between upper and lower.  Granted, it's less of an issue now with the mlock cutouts allowing stuff to more easily fall out than gen 1, but it should also allow the upper to be made a little more rigid...  As is though, not having it extend to inline probably does keep it from being impacted and damaged quite as much, and allow the upper to remain a little lighter in construction.

Regardless, what's been you impression with these?  Good to go?

Just ordered it today, I'll give ya a first impression update and I'll run it at Kalashnicon summer 2020 and give another update after some abuse to it

Offline RSR

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2020, 07:42:13 PM »
I believe that much of this is irrelevant with the latest release, but below is my previous post on his Gen 1. 

Also to run a gas pedal and afg w/ Bonesteel Gen 2, I'd probably add rail sections to at least bottom and possibly side before mounting them.  And I'd probably use aluminum for bottom and polymer for side (polymer side reduces heat transfer, which isn't really an issue on bottom w/ afg).


Bottom, only the small rail will fit.  And the small rail is sufficient to mount an AFG or other grip. 

Support hand side, I like the long rail for heat deflection as well as a continuous surface for my hand being mounted against. 

Opposite side, I have a small rail for flashlight mount or other accessory if needed.  Better to have and not need, than not have and need...

Also, NEA does sit slightly higher than bonesteel.  But it is a much more substantial rail in pretty much every respect.  And its design is also such that it prevents things from falling into the handguard, unlike Bonesteel.  Whether NEA is "overbuilt" or that extra bulk is critical is quite fairly up for discussion.  But that's my primary takeaway.

Lowers Bonesteel is better ventilated and has much more rail space -- for NEA, more rails means less ventilation.  Also, Bonesteel, you don't have to worry about rails working themselves loose.

But, for Bonesteel in hand, the lower is almost too wide.  Wider than AR quad rails.  And I haven't mounted it yet to try, but I also don't think the bonesteel will be friendly to the gogun gas pedal, which it and the AFG make a pretty much perfect forehand grip w/ my Troy/NEA, and do a very good job of minimizing heat on the support hand.  Without the Gas pedal on bonesteel, support hand thumb ends up on top rail right next to where the pistol in exhausting the gas (point of greatest heat).  Not ideal.
My Daniels Defense Omega rail: 1.9", 48.3mm.
Bonesteel: 2.15", 54.5mm.

In comparison my Midwest Industries Galil Quad Rail is 2.25"/57.3mm, but feels much narrower -- I think it has to be something to do with the wide rail sitting so low to the palm of the hand, but not certain... 
**PAUSE**
So ran through these again.  Bonesteel the meat of thumb ends up atop the side rail.  NEA is about 2/3 on and 1/3 off the rail and the Midwest and Daniels both run palm entirely on the rail.  That's the hangup with bonesteel.  I can rotate my palm more under the barrel , but then I'm not using the same grip on the afg as I"m used too...  Not sure if I'm describing correctly, but the meat of the thumb, portion of palm connected to thumb is what I'm describing...
Bottom line, bonesteel is high enough that my thumb sits atop the side rail and is the only quad rail I have where a c-clamp grip would be described as natural.  It'd be hot, but natural...  Without an AFG that grip would probably be worse... 

Looks like I've gone and convinced myself to spend more $ on upgrading my 2nd tacticool VZ2008 to an NEA fore-end at some  point...

So I've posted before about how low the Bonesteel side rail sits, so thought I'd post some pics today while I was snapping some pics.

Here's the Galil Midwest Industries top vs the Bonesteel bottom.  As mentioned, my thumb rides the top of the bonesteel rail, making a C clamp grip natural -- but that doesn't work if you're running a co-witness red dot...  Otherwise, your thumb right there puts it at hot central...



Bonesteel top vs NEA/Troy bottom (though perhaps not entirely obvious from the pic, the NEA has about 2x the distance between rails as the bonesteel):

*Worth mentioning that the bottom rail, I leave the front most hole open for increased ventilation there as well as most support for the AFG.  And the long NEA side rail, allows some venting at the foremost side rail hole, and the sling swivel attachment hole offers add'l ventilation on the rear...  To mount the gas pedal where I needed it, the sling swivel attachment hole would've been covered so I sent it to the rear...  W/o the gas pedal, would probably help w/ ventilation/cooling to the front if you don't need to mount a sling...

And here's just the setup of the go gun gas pedal and AFG that I really like for the VZ58 -- this is the aluminum version that runs about $50 vs $15 polymer airsoft ones you can find.  (Need to order some ODG rail covers...)



In summary, the NEA handguard fits my hand similar to my AK/Galil and AR handguards where my thumb and the meat of my thumb rides the rail.  Bonesteel has my thumb and most of the meat of my thumb riding the top of the side rail.

*Should mention that I'm looking to sell this Bonesteel rail and will separate w/ it at cost plus shipping.  Didn't use Bonesteel's screw adhesive, just blue loctite, so all the adjustment screws should be easily removed and no modifications were made to the rails.  Also have a black aluminum gas pedal I don't have an immediate need for that I'd sell for $50 delivered (installed but never left the house) if anyone is looking.  Essentially same price as gogun but free shipping.  PM me for either.

http://store.gogunusa.com/Gas-Pedal-for-Rifles_c5.htm

Offline sboone

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2020, 06:48:02 PM »
RSR and BonJovi
My handgaurds were delivered today.  Out of the package I was a little concerned because there wasnt much material connecting the bottom and side rails and seemed to be some flex, after installation though everything is low profile and rock solid, front retainer adds the rigidity necessary for the lower IMO.  As a system the whole thing is significantly lower profile that the OEM and plastic railed gaurds I had before.  With my vortex razor reflex on the upper it revealed a little bit of side to side so I'll have to use one of the tension screws on the side but there is very little play.  Its amazing how about a 7oz weight savinga will completely change a rifles handling, swings so fast.  I will zero the razor and have a local 2 gun coming up that I will use as a test run before comitting to it before Kalashnicon

Offline RSR

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2020, 05:52:41 PM »
Thanks for the report -- I think the VZ58s handling is already superb, but what you're describing is similar to folks on ARs trying optimized/lightweight profile barrels like Ballistic Advantage's Hanson or Faxon's gunner profile for the first time after coming from M4/A2 profile barrels.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Bonesteel/CNCW state that set screws are required for repeatability of that upper rail mount.  And IIRC, you're supposed to back them off slightly so that you can still remove it without having to adjust screws however.

Offline sboone

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2020, 06:12:55 PM »
Yes, theres set screws, 2 to space the front of the upper gaurd and 1 for the rear of the upper gaurd if needed.  I probably didnt need to use a rear set screw but it doesnt hurt anything so I did anyway, truth be told the only reason I ever removed the upper in the first place was to show that it wasnt an AK.  It is rock solid though.  The railed lower I had before was pretty heavy, just a beefy chunk of plastic with some fairly thick rails screwed on, wasnt hard to upgrade from that

Offline sboone

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2020, 07:04:47 PM »




Got all the important bits mounted up to this guy.  I wasnt sure the slate mlok was gonna work due to screw length but it was guttentight and feels good.  Decided that Id throw some love towards the 9hole review crew and see how the stop works since it keeps the light low profile im goin for.

On the port side i left the front section of rail open so I can mount my shotkam in a Primary Arms cantilever 30mm ring for video.

Offline RSR

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Re: Just picked up another Dtech VZ 58
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2020, 12:55:36 AM »
The railed lower I had before was pretty heavy, just a beefy chunk of plastic with some fairly thick rails screwed on, wasnt hard to upgrade from that

FAB?

 

anything