Author Topic: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?  (Read 10009 times)

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Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2018, 06:43:59 PM »
I'm sorry the ftf did strip off the mag but ended up at like a 45 degree angle in front of the barrel. On the way home I thought to myself that I should have taken a picture to show. If it happens again I will.

Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #46 on: September 18, 2018, 06:45:40 PM »
Ok so I'm back. I got my bullets and did my push test. I come up with 1.064. Minus my .015 and I come up with 1.049, so I loaded up 10 dummy rounds to 1.050". Tested and they all cycle through. So the berry's bullet is 0.535 [long], my average case length from the range brass that I pick up is 0.745". If I add that together I get 1.280, now I subtract 1.050 oal from that and I come up with .23 bullet seat depth. I do the same procedure for the BBI fn 125 gr bullets that I am loading now and get .235 seat depth. I hope that what I just said makes sense because it does in my head. So anyway my question is since both bullets are being seated in the case to the same depth that means the case would have the same volume for powder and I should be able to use the same 3.9gr of hp-38 for both bullets right? Or am I just completely out of my mind?

I'm still waiting for that taper crimp. They sent me the wrong one I was trying it out on my BBI bullets and messed up about a dozen making all kinds of adjustments before I finally checked the base of the die and saw that it was for a 32 S&W L. That brings me to my next question. I barely flare the case and when I'm done seating the bullet I end up with .378-.379 at the case mouth, do I even need to crimp with that kind of measurement?



[Mods added text for clarity]
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 09:40:55 AM by Wobbly »

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #47 on: September 18, 2018, 11:17:48 PM »
Just awaiting a full and complete answer on all 3 questions.


Great. That's 2 down.

Apologies on the OAL thing. I'm working on an iPad this week and searching is not their strong suit.

Have you got the stock Mecgar mags with this gun ?
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Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #48 on: September 19, 2018, 08:17:04 AM »
Sorry about that Wobbly. I got side tracked with the kids and never came back to it.

I did get the taper crimp and set it up like you described in your sticky. Then I went and tore down those bullets and saw that it was leaving a pretty good indent on the projectile so I made an adjustment and tried again. I continued the process until I got a light mark on the projectile and the case mouth is now measuring .377" and I get the occasional .376".

I am using the stock 17 rnd magazines.

I also loaded 50 with 4.0 grns, but my OAL varies from 1.047" to 1.055" with the majority of them at 1.053". I'm sure that is just me still learning.

Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #49 on: September 19, 2018, 02:29:39 PM »
Ok went back to the range. Shot the bullets loaded with 4.1 and 4.2 grns and they both seem to be accurate even with my poor shooting ability. I could deffinetly see a difference in color on the inside of the spent case compaired to the 3.9 grns.

I did have 4 FTF out of 60 rnds ( 12 mags loaded with 5 rnd each). 2 were the first bullet in the mag when I hit the slide release and 2 were on the 2nd round. The FTFs measured 1.047" to 1.053"

 https://imgur.com/5DqbqYV

The funny thing is that I put the same round back in the mag and it worked on the 2nd attempt. I think I will increase my OAL a little more and see if that helps out. Plunk testing all of the longer ones of course.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #50 on: September 20, 2018, 04:57:18 PM »
Maybe it's the light, or lack of, but that doesn't look like a Berry FP in your photo.

And the same thing happens with both mags ?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 09:42:34 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2018, 05:46:37 PM »
This what I got in the boxes.

https://imgur.com/y6MNhrM

I hope I didn't get lied to.

And yes it happens with both mags.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 09:42:59 AM by Wobbly »

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #52 on: September 20, 2018, 09:19:18 PM »
I had the same reaction as Wobbly to the picture of the failure to feed, but in the second photo, yes, those are Berry's HBFP.

My CZ is more short-throated than most, and I (ages ago) seated that bullet at  OAL 1.065.  If I were in your shoes, I'd seat several at 1.065 and see if they plunk and spin.

I'd also open up the taper crimp to .378.  A case mouth diameter of .376 is a bit narrow for .356 plated bullet.

Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2018, 12:00:00 PM »
I had the same reaction as Wobbly to the picture of the failure to feed, but in the second photo, yes, those are Berry's HBFP.

I totaly understand it does look like it could be a RN bullet in that picture.

My CZ is more short-throated than most, and I (ages ago) seated that bullet at  OAL 1.065.  If I were in your shoes, I'd seat several at 1.065 and see if they plunk and spin.

That's kind of the direction that I was heading. I was just going to do it in smaller increments, but if you are saying that you think that is what I should do then I will load a few dummys and see what happens. My push test could have definitely been off. It seems that a lot of newbies have a hard time getting it accurate and I'm sure I'm no different.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2018, 06:28:53 PM »
Really, the only difference in my gun and yours is that mine has a light weight recoil spring of about 14 lbs. I had lots of trouble with the Berry HP, which has a much wider mouth. But I have never seen this issue with Berry FP or HBFP with my own loads or anyone else on the forum. This is very strange.

Very strange indeed.

To get to the correct TC setting, just seat a Berry bullet in a SIZED case with ZERO belling. Berry allows a generous radius on the base, and it will slide right in.

 ;)
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Offline IDescribe

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2018, 06:51:21 PM »
My push test could have definitely been off. It seems that a lot of newbies have a hard time getting it accurate and I'm sure I'm no different.

I've done quite a bit of push testing.  I've had bullets stick or drag when I remove the cartridge, producing a longer OAL than the process should have.  I've had bullets push in a bit as they drag on something at the last moment and produce a shorter OAL than the process should have.  There are methods to compensate for both, and per the instructions here at the site, you're supposed to perform the process a bunch until you see the same OAL, or a cluster of OALs within a range of a couple thousandths, pop up over and over again, then settle on that. 

The process does work, but from time to time I'd get results that were considerably off, and at some point I decided that if ultimately I wouldn't know for sure how accurate my results were until I built a cartridge and gave it the ol' plunk and spin, I decided to come up with my own process to get to that point a little quicker. 

My process is to push test exactly one bullet in exactly one case. That gives me a ball park.  I then seat a dummy round -- size, bell, seat, crimp -- and adjust to an OAL maybe .02-.03 longer than the push test result, something that I know for sure is too long.  I plunk that dummy and confirm, then put it back in the seating die and seat it a little shorter, a little shorter, a couple thousandths at a time, plunking and spinning after each reseat to check it.  When you do this, it won't seat all the way, won't seat all the way, then it seats all the way, but still won't spin, won't spin, then starts to spin with a little drag between the bullet and rifling, then a little less drag, then almost no felt drag, then no drag.  I measure and record that final OAL as my true max OAL without rifling engagement. 

As long as I am only reducing OAL .001 to .002 at a time, I know my recorded true max is no worse than .002 from actual factual true max, which in all likelihood changes a thousandth from one bullet to the next anyway.  I then deduct a cushion from that true max for a working max OAL.   

And that's where my OAL starts for load development.

For someone using the push test and finding it to work as intended, I see no reason to change it.  But if you have problems producing a consistent result, or if you get a consistent result that is out of the norm, you can skip the middleman and go to the dummy route I take.



I did have 4 FTF out of 60 rnds ( 12 mags loaded with 5 rnd each). 2 were the first bullet in the mag when I hit the slide release and 2 were on the 2nd round. The FTFs measured 1.047" to 1.053"

Yeah... one thing you can do is to stop treating the slide lock as a slide release.  ;)   I'm kidding.  There are a thousand pointless discussions online as to whether or not that component should be called a slide lock or a slide release.  Regardless of what you call it, I'd recommend you stop using it to release the slide.  You will likely have better luck sling-shotting the slide.  Load a fresh mag, pull it back all the way with your hand, then let it go to chamber the round.

Also, if your gun is brand new, you may just need more time for it to break in.  Sometimes when guns are new, there are contact points between different parts of the gun that will smooth each other out over time, but when the gun is new, there's enough friction to slow the slide down just enough to cause feeding problems.  You may find that sling-shotting for a while avoids the problem, and that after a few hundred more rounds, the problem no longer exists as metals polish out each other's rough spots.

Another possible problem with new guns is that there's gunk in it slowing down the slide, and a detailed cleaning will fix the problem.

But don't settle on "it's too short" because it can just as easily be too long.  One of my pistols had feeding problems with the Blue Bullets 125gr RN at a particular OAL, but if I loaded it .01 shorter OR longer, it fed fine. 

Food for thought.  :)

Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2018, 03:03:08 PM »
So I set the TC die up the way you said Wobbly and all is well with that.

I also went back and made some dummy rounds the way you said IDescribe. I did it 3 times over 3 days just to make sure I wasn't getting lazy and cheating any of the steps. I had to go down to a OAL a .063" on 2 of them to get no drag and I had to go down to 1.061" on the last to get no drag. My original push test came out to 1.064" so I guess I was spot on with that test. So I think I will probable go with 1.060", but I need to get some case lube first. I get variations of .007" sometimes in my OAL and I think case lube will help with that.

The pistol that I am loading these for probably does need more breaking in. It has never had a FTF with anything store bought or the 2 other style bullets I have loaded for it, but I think I would be hard pressed to say that I have 1000 rounds through it and never more than 200 in 1 outing. ( I typically only shoot 50 to 100 rounds at a time.)

I don't think it is a lube problem because I tend to run all my pistols and rifles wet ( people have actually commented on it), but it could be cleaning. I haven't really gotten in there and done a full cleaning for a couple hundred rounds.

This week doesn't look good for going to the range and next week doesn't look any better so who knows.In the mean time I will give it a good scrubbing and we will see what happens.

And I know ID I have to start sling-shooting the slide, but I'm new to pistols and I guess I've just seen to many movies.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2018, 10:25:36 AM »
Feed issues. Yikes. The rounds clearly aren't making it to the chamber.
? Play with slight changes in OAL (+.005, -.005, -.010, -.015)
? Disassemble and clean both mags
? Change slide lubes
? Try a different recoil spring strength


Tight OALs are always going to be a dream until you find a seating die with changeable seating mandrills (or "anvils" as I call them). For that bullet to achieve the lowest variations you'll need a die that offers a flat faced anvil. But still your gun should perform better than it is with the Lee dies you now have.


Consider too, that after you do everything in your control, the gun may simply need to go back to CZ. This happens about once a year. As good as their quality control is, it just happens. When CZ-USA compares it to other similar guns, a minuscule difference in the hood, mag feed lips, or other feature may become readily apparent. I say this because, as has been said, your issue is simply not normal CZ fare. And not having the gun for 3 weeks is surely better than this continual "head scratching" and inability to compete.

 ;)
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Offline rfogg

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Re: Berry 124gr FP Bullets Fit SP-01 ?
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2018, 07:58:02 AM »
I got back to the range yesterday with my freshly cleaned pistol. I bought some Grizzle Grease and lubed the slide with that. I also got some case lube and made up 50 rounds using the case lube with an OAL of 1.060". The gun shot all 50 of those bullets flawlessly. I had 50 of the bullets left with the shorter OAL. and no case lube and ended up with 4 FTF out of the 50. So I guess I can start my ladder again with the new longer OAL and see how that goes.

I do have to say the case lube makes a world of difference when it comes to resizing. I was stupid to not use it from the start.